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#41 Coz_Aholic

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 05:02 PM

No Paula YOU are doing it as usual, just stirring up the pot with your nasty remarks...go away ...PLEASE!!! :rolleyes:
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#42 MarkC

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 08:29 AM

This is actually getting comical...

maybe everyone should just follow the law and stay out of Cuba

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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#43 cozdude

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 01:59 PM

ah yes, because Cuba was such a wonderful, democratic place before Castro, right?

"I believe that there is no country in the world including any and all the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than in Cuba, in part owing to my country’s policies during the Batista regime. I approved the proclamation which Fidel Castro made in the Sierra Maestra, when he justifiably called for justice and especially yearned to rid Cuba of corruption. I will even go further: to some extent it is as though Batista was the incarnation of a number of sins on the part of the United States. Now we shall have to pay for those sins. In the matter of the Batista regime, I am in agreement with the first Cuban revolutionaries. That is perfectly clear."

– U.S. President John F. Kennedy, interview with Jean Daniel, October 24, 1963

Familiar story, no? Here the Have Nots overthrew the Haves and took all they had. Many of the former Haves fled to the U.S., where they have exercised an inordinate amount of influence on U.S. policy toward Cuba, and thus the Embargo's long, ineffective reign. Let's not forget that foreign remittances (i.e., Cuban ex-pats in the U.S. sending dollars to their families in Cuba) is the biggest source of dollar-infusion to Cuba).

Immoral to travel to Cuba? That's laughable. Many Americans have been LEGALLY traveling there for decades, for educational, scientific and cultural exchanges. But the individual tourist whose dollars may support struggling entrepreneurs and small businesspeople on the island trying to get by are somehow immoral, law-breaking miscreants because some misguided, outdated policy makes it illegal to travel there? Save that sh*t for the idiot masses who gave rise to the Tea Party.
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#44 cozdude

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 02:20 PM

Here's some food for thought on the U.S. travel restrictions, from 74 prominent Cuban dissidents, to the U.S. Congress. You be the judge.

http://democracyinam...to_Congress.pdf
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#45 MarkC

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 02:23 PM

Yes, Cuba was a dictatorship under Batista prior to Castro’s takeover, but at least its citizens were free to travel, start businesses, worship as they pleased, had American tourism. It is also no secret that Cuba was an adult playground full of gambling, drugs and prostitution. But the people were free.

Below you quote the worst piece of cr*p ever elected President in US history. I have read very detailed accounts about politicians, the Kennedys (JFK included) indulging in multiple prostitutes in Cuba during the time he was a senator. This is why I had a great laugh when the country was outraged by Clinton and an intern; when they still consider JFK a great man and he’d had 30-40 extra-marital women during his tenure!

The fact is, the Cuban people (including my mother), The USA and the rest of the world were fooled -- hoodwinked into thinking Castro was going to bring about positive change to Cuba, and later announced his allegiance with Russia.

Yes, there are different types of legal travel to Cuba in the form of religion, humanitarian and other purposes. Do I agree with it? In a word, No.

Please understand, there is NO SUCH THING in Cuba as an entrepreneur – EVERYTHING is owned by the government.

Show me an entrepreneur in Cuba, and I will show you a prostitute, a thief and seller of stolen goods on the black market, a drug dealer, or a President who forces its people to exchange of millions of American dollars for worthless Cuban Pesos.

MC
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#46 Coz2wonder

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 03:42 PM

"Immoral to travel to Cuba? That's laughable"

Ya, a real joke...tell all those who are suffering under this government how "laughable" it is
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#47 Coz_Aholic

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 04:55 PM

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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#48 Coz_Aholic

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 05:02 PM

"
Please understand, there is NO SUCH THING in Cuba as an entrepreneur – EVERYTHING is owned by the government."






Cuban president: More private enterprise will be allowed
Source: CNN

Cuban President Raul Castro said Sunday that his government would allow more private businesses and make it easier for those businesses to hire workers, as the socialist economy struggles to get back on its feet and shed up to one million redundant state jobs.


The government "agreed to broaden the exercise of self employment and its use as another alternative for the employment of those excess workers," Castro said during a biannual session of the National Assembly.

He went on to say that the government would eliminate "numerous" prohibitions to the granting of licenses for private businesses and to the sales of some products, as well as "make the contracting of a work force more flexible."

In exchange, those businesses will pay taxes on income and sales, and pay contributions for employees, he said.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2...1/cuba.presi...
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#49 Coz_Aholic

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 06:14 PM

There are worse places!!!

The Freedom House Press Release states that:

“Nine countries and one territory are judged to have the worst human rights conditions, receiving the lowest possible score of 7 (based on a 1 to 7 scale, with 1 representing the most free and 7 representing the least free) on both political rights and civil liberties: Burma, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Libya, North Korea, Somalia, Sudan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tibet.”
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#50 MarkC

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 08:13 PM

Just a question here - How many of you are Cuban or families come from Cuba?

Again, until you can speak from from personal experience as a Cuban, or as the son or daughter of Cuban parents, YOU DO NOT AND CANNOT EVER EVER UNDERSTAND!

All you can do is rely on liberal media GARBAGE and PROPAGANDA that you Google!

The Communists would LOVE to convince you that private business is legal, but it's all HORSESHIT!

MC
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#51 MarkC

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 08:17 PM

“Nine countries and one territory are judged to have the worst human rights conditions, receiving the lowest possible score of 7 (based on a 1 to 7 scale, with 1 representing the most free and 7 representing the least free) on both political rights and civil liberties: Burma, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Libya, North Korea, Somalia, Sudan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tibet.”


In Cuba, you'll never know how bad the human rights are because the ones that would complain are imprisoned for life, or executed.
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#52 Coz_Aholic

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 08:35 PM

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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#53 cozdude

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 08:18 AM

I stand by my Tea Party comment vis-a-vis MarkC -- the knee-jerk reply speaks volumes.

Here's some more about Cuba for you, if you actually care to read about facts and not simply rely on emotional reaction (read the linked articles in particular):

http://www.cubaclimbing.com/

This is a particularly relevant article, as MarkC clearly represents the old Batista-loyalist worldview:

http://www.usaengage...redmajority.pdf

Looking forward to going there very soon.
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#54 Coz_Aholic

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 09:04 AM

Just some quotes from one of those sites.

"According to a study of Cuban-American visits to Cuba, once Cuban exiles see Cuba again and see that their nation is neither a hell nor a heaven, they begin to realize that the issue is not who is in charge of Cuba, but rather how to make a better future for the Cuban people.7 Many come to believe in the logic of a policy of constructive engagement rather than destructive isolation and conflict. Engaging now for a better future seems worth the pain of admitting that the embargo policy has failed."


"A recent poll showed that a staggering 70% of Cuban Americans felt that they were misled by politicians about their Cuba policy positions in order to gain votes. In this same poll, 55% of respondents felt that they would strongly support a candidate who says that the embargo has not worked and that it is time to explore new ways to encourage democracy in Cuba.9"

“The Cuban-American community has turned the page. Our … interests are best served by engagement, not isolation. Our interests cannot be any worse served than by this futile embargo.”
—Alfredo Durán, lawyer and Bay of Pigs veteran16


55% of Cuban exile adults said the “40-year-old policy of confrontation between exiles and the Cuban government” has been a failure, 31% said it is the best strategy and 14% said they didn’t know or gave no answer
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#55 MarkC

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 09:29 AM

This is a particularly relevant article, as MarkC clearly represents the old Batista-loyalist worldview:



Um, I wouldn’t say that I was a Batista loyalist. I’d say however that I was in favor of an overthrow of their current government and have been my entire life. Batista has nothing to do with it.

It just sucks that when it comes to a nation that has the ability to provide us with a valuable economic resource, we go after it, and when it comes to Cuba, JFK pussed out. The best thing to have ever done was overthrow Batista ourselves and help them install a democracy.

As far as the embargo goes, if the government hasn’t collapsed for 50 years, it’s not going to. Main reason is I think because noone joined the US in the embargo (or stayed with it). If you recall, Cuba’s standard of life plummeted when the USSRs economy collapsed and they lost all that Communist support from them.

Again, I do not have the solution to it all, but the law is the law, and it should be observed. We have no business in Cuba until it is free of the humanitarian crimes the current government is guilty of.

FWIW, I shared this entire thread with both of my parents last night, both native Cubans, and they were in complete agreement with every word I said in this thread.

MC
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#56 Coz2wonder

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 04:28 PM

DocVikingo, I would like to direct this question to you for a couple of reasons.

First, you appear to have a large influence with the peer to peer dive community, and also appear to have knowlege about Cuba.

Here are my questions;

As American visitor to Cuba, what would happen if a person(s) became involved in an accident, seriously ill, committed/victim of a crime, or died?

Would DAN insurance protect a US diver, diving in Cuba, when they are not legally allowed to enter the country, and in fact, would APPEAR NOT to even be on the island of Cuba (no passport stamped, no documents. This would apply to any US citizens, diver or general tourist).

Who would the US Citizen call for assistance if problems arise?

What are the foreign embassies in Cuba ?

Would those embassies being willing, and ABLE to intervene on behalf of a US Citizen if any of the above situation took place?

Once a US Citizen has called for assistence, and where identified, what would be the ramifications for violating the laws of the US as it relates to travel to Cuba?

Who will be liable to pay for ANY, and ALL costs incurred to resolve a US citizen being held, or helped in Cuba? That is beyond any fines that may be incurred for violating US policy in regards to Cuba.

Perhaps these questions have already been addressed, if not, and I where going to Cuba these are questions I would want to have answers too prior to me stepping food in that country.
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#57 Coz_Aholic

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 07:02 PM

"The United States Government provides consular and other services through the U.S. Interests Section in Havana. The U.S. Interests Section operates under the legal protection of the Swiss government but is not co-located with the Swiss Embassy." http://travel.state....s/cis_1097.html

MEDICAL INSURANCE: The Cuban government has announced that as of May 1, 2010, tourists, foreigners with temporary residence in Cuba, and Cubans living abroad who visit Cuba will have to purchase medical insurance. The insurance will be sold by foreign companies approved by the Cuban government or by Cuban firms at the ports of entry in Cuba according to Cuba’s Official Gazette. Diplomats and representatives of accredited international organizations will not have to be insured.
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#58 Charles

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 12:31 AM

Gosh what impressive copy and pasting, wish I could do that.

"Transactions related to tourist travel are not licensable. This restriction includes tourist travel to Cuba from or through a third country such as Mexico or Canada. U.S. law enforcement authorities enforce these regulations at U.S. airports and pre-clearance facilities in third countries. Travelers who fail to comply with Department of the Treasury regulations could face civil penalties and criminal prosecution upon return to the United States".

I lost my promised inheritance of five hectares of property on the Isle of Pines, now Isla de Juventud owned by my grandmother. Her husband (my paternal grandfather) died eventually from TB contracted while serving in the U.S. Navy during the Spanish American War in Cuba. It was an officially recognized service related injury/disease. My maternal grandfather was a ship captain who sailed cargo and passenger freighters between New York, La Habana and Vera Cruz Mexico. He died choosing to go down with his ship in the tradition of captains after a collision due to faulty steering equipment aboard a recently acquired American flagged ship in the early 1930s. His ship was carrying a load of primarily car parts for Cuba and a team of U.S. archaeologists and a British diplomat destined for Vera Cruz Mexico.

I have wanted to travel to Cuba since I was old enough to want to see new lands, about age five. Being the only grandchild with great interest (the others none), grandma always promised this land on a tropical Caribbean island as my inheritance. I played with the collection of tax receipts from Cuba which spanned more than forty years and property taxes were typically paid with U.S. postage stamps. I met and knew many of the early refugees as my school in North Florida was often used for temporary transition of students that might have arrived speaking no or minimal English. I have been opposed to U.S. trade and travel restrictions since they were first implemented. I have numerous reasons to want to travel to and visit Cuba. Not the least of all the Cuban tradition of celebration of the arts, of music, painting and dance as well as the incredible variety of geography and the wealth of species of flora and fauna. Cuba has many natural wonders of geology and variety of habitats that make it a naturalist's paradise.

I HAVE NEVER TRAVELED TO CUBA IN ALL MY YEARS LIVING IN COZUMEL AS WELL AS MY TIME LIVING IN KEY WEST THAT CONSIDERS ITSELF AN INDEPENDENT CONCH REPUBLIC!

Personally I find it offensive that a right wing, militaristic, cafeteria supposed "patriot" who makes near treasonous statements about the current elected president, waves the flag and is anti-socialist, rabid anticommunist would somehow discover humanitarian efforts trumps all laws and U.S. regulations as they ascribe to the insane "birther" movement and our Kenyan born, radical Black Christian Liberation philosophy practicing, radical fanatic Muslim and Atheist president, the bearer of Obamageddon gives reason to ignore all laws and "no one will tell me where I can travel". I find it even more incomprehensible that someone with those attitudes would (credit for truthfulness here) would seek socialist subsidized cosmetic surgery with what is available locally. How to you define hypocrite.

George Dubya Bush, who draft dodged his way into part time Texas National Guard service. Stayed drunk most of two decades and sucked up cocaine like a Hoover Vacuum cleaner during his limited time protecting the Gulf of Mexico from Viet Cong attacks. Got excused from duty to work on daddy's congressional campaign and then finally broke his contract completely, by not fulfilling his military service because he refused to take a urine test which he couldn't pass. "I might not agree completely with all his policies, but he is Commander in Chief and deserves all the respect that goes with the office". I didn't travel to Cuba while he was president, nor under Clinton, nor Bush #I, Ronald Rayguns nor Carter nor Ford. I did consider going under Nixon as I was a part of a group that had been invited by the Cuba government.

I haven't commented until now, but myself and many others find your contradictory attitudes offensive. However if I did decide to violate U.S. law or violate the laws on any country I was visiting, I would never flaunt it on the Internet in advance and it is elementary common sense, if you choose to commit criminal acts, don't brag about it on public forums, especially where you are widely disliked for a variety of reason by many people.

Go to Cuba if you want Patricia, "Frankly we don't give a damn", but quit trying to justify it to us. I'll bet with your high military connections, you could maybe get to visit Gitmo, add that place to your lists of places with no human rights.
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#59 MarkC

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 07:50 AM

Good God Charles... That was f-cking awesome.

I've said my piece more than a few times, no need to rehash it, you folks that think its OK to go, keep going, I hope you get caught.

MC
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#60 Coz_Aholic

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 09:37 AM

"Sticks and Stones" As I said before Charles "show me your DD214". Then you can insult me.

Your opinion really matters not since every expat I have spoken to thinks you are "nuts" anyway.
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