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Sams club finally coming?


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#21 Carey

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 05:32 AM

I haven't noticed any of my third generation Cozumeleno neighbors pulling up stakes and leaving the island and I am surrounded, here in the heart of centro, by almost entirely old-timer locals. All of whom will, I expect, be as delighted as I will be to have more competition for better prices on consumer goods. So I do not agree with your observation, Charles, that there is a steady exodus of locals.

Downtown tourist-oriented shops are declining and have been for at least 10 years partly, in my opinion, because they almost all sell the same identical stuff and there are so many of them. Fifth Avenue in Playa is the same. Maybe that was a bad business model -- opening a store that sells exactly the same items as all the other stores on the same strip.

The little bodegas, farmacias, laundries and dry cleaners, stores selling sexy polyester clothing, office supplies and on and on -- they will mostly continue to survive I believe because they serve niche markets of people who live in the immediate vicinity and don't want to have to get on their moped and tear off every time they need to do an errand. Just as neighborhood stores like this continue to survive in many areas of Manhattan to give one example. (Only it's way safer here).

But to return again to my home location, 4 blocks from the downtown plaza, all of us who live in this area can walk to numerous restaurants, 3 banks, several cleaners, a car wash, a computer store and a couple of pharmacies, several large grocery stores. And with two blocks of my home there are 5 bodegas selling everything from bleach, to cokes to vegetable oil and two empanada stands. Oh. And a couple of bakeries. Oh and two produce markets. And el mercado is hanging in there as well. Oh also several places to buy fresh fish. Places to get hair cut and nails done. Flower shops All close enough to walk. So downtown isn't dying in my opinion. But the tourist trade is being pushed elsewhere for a variety of reasons. Although people still do come downtown for the best and most charming restaurants and to walk along the malecon. And there are still some good shops hanging in there selling special stuff.

The cruiseship influx, I think we can mostly agree, hasn't helped the island much really. These companies have become very adept at keeping their passenger's dollars in their own pockets by herding as many sheeple as they can to stores and tours where they receive massive kick backs. The all inclusives -- particularly in the far south of the island where taxi fares into town have become hideously high -- have never done much for the island although at least they provide some jobs -- not a ton but some.

I just don't see the horrible harm of a Sam's Club here -- particularly way back in the thorn forest where they've wisely chosen to put it. It will provide SOME jobs. And it will provide competition not for the small retailers in my neighborhood but for the other big boxes -- Chedraui, Mega, Elektra and Coppel. And that's good news for everyone who lives here.

The fact that the ugly ole thing was put way back in the brush where no tourist is ever likely to come upon it by accident means it won't spoil the view or create congestion on the waterfront.
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#22 TRAVELER89

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 06:43 AM

Who is putting up those track-houses? Is this a government-built neighborhood or is this a privately constructed neighborhood?


These are all goverment agency "low down, low interest" developments, for "nationals" credits are accumulated within the SS systems, depending on years worked.
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#23 cvchief

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 07:40 AM

So Traveler, is that the same thing you were saying about the other store being for national shoppers?? It caters towards the people buying the SS homes?
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#24 Coz2wonder

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 08:00 AM

What is Bodega Aurrera (see URL)https://www.bodegaur...om.mx/index.asp

I am with Carey on this one. I have no idea why all the drama over this announcement.

A little Mexican island may get one, some or all of the following stores, Walmart, Sam's Club, and Bodega Aurrera...what does that have to do with driving "generations" of locals off the island, and for tourists not to visit anymore?

As for the "track housing"...the money for the down payments (as Traveler pointed out) comes out of the employees pay (if they want it to or not). If you had a choice between living in a stick house, a small apartment, or with family...perhaps that "track house" would look pretty appealing.

Maybe it isn't something YOU would want, but for those who may NEVER have the opportunity to OWN anything, it fits their needs perfectly.
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#25 Guest_pecosgirl_*

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 08:25 AM

It's not drama...just discussion. My opinion still is that the more construction, the more people moving there and for an island of that size it's gettin' pretty crowded and we prefer somewhere not so busy.
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#26 cvchief

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 08:25 AM

Ok, so I get it is like a CVS, part everything store. I just never heard 'national shopper' before. Does that mean caters to locals or something?
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#27 Coz_Aholic

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 11:17 AM

Workers are not REQUIRED to use thier "points" on government track housing. They can use it for a down payment on any house and get motgege for the balance. I know what I am saying because my Nephew is doing it, and he works under an FM3. All workers are covered, not just Mexicans.
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#28 budaman

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 12:15 PM

I've never been to one of the Sam's in Mexico, but if they follow the same business model that is used in the States, I don't see how it could be anything less than a benefit to the island. They really do cater to the small business owner, especially small restaurants & offices that need to buy many items in bulk. This has got to help with the bottom line for many of those businesses. It will also help homeowners with big ticket items that might require them to go to the mainland along with all the associated hassles. Mega, Chadraui & Elektra may need to adjust, but I don't see it affecting any of the businesses that rely on tourism. And, it's not on the waterfront!

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#29 TRAVELER89

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 12:19 PM

So Traveler, is that the same thing you were saying about the other store being for national shoppers?? It caters towards the people buying the SS homes?



Paisano, mexicano, nationals all have the same meaning, I am a naturalized mexican......, we are "national shoppers". Our shopping habits and needs are different from foreign nationals living here, the majority of us do not have large 2 or 3 bedroom homes, there is no need for washer, dryer, large stoves with ovens, garbage disposals......, so on. The top luxury items are loud stero systems and large TVs. many many of the little people do not have refris...., they buy 1 liter of milk as needed, 4 or 6 eggs as needed, and even 1 roll of TP as needed. There is a lack of cultural knowledge by many foreign nationals......, why do you come here, buy a house and then want to change everything, complain about things that you can't get or are not the way it is in the US or Canada.

T
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#30 Guest_pecosgirl_*

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 12:23 PM

I think traveler makes an excellent point.
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#31 Carey

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 12:47 PM

Paisano, mexicano, nationals all have the same meaning, I am a naturalized mexican......, we are "national shoppers". Our shopping habits and needs are different from foreign nationals living here, the majority of us do not have large 2 or 3 bedroom homes, there is no need for washer, dryer, large stoves with ovens, garbage disposals......, so on. The top luxury items are loud stero systems and large TVs. many many of the little people do not have refris...., they buy 1 liter of milk as needed, 4 or 6 eggs as needed, and even 1 roll of TP as needed. There is a lack of cultural knowledge by many foreign nationals......, why do you come here, buy a house and then want to change everything, complain about things that you can't get or are not the way it is in the US or Canada.

T


I saw a mighty lot of big screen LCD TV's going out the doors of all the big stores here at Christmas this year. All being bought by Mexican nationals as far as I could see. I expect they will be happy to "shop national" at Sam's Club, too, where they may be able to save as much as $4000 pesos on their next big screen.

The 'little people' as you call them, Traveler, the paisanos that live hand to mouth -- no, this kind of thing will not help them if for no other reason than they can't afford the annual membership fees.
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#32 nauticab

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 11:27 PM

a few points:
i live IN FRONT of the construction. we are not in the boonies as carey thinks. 65 and 11 is a booming intersection and the new "centro" will be right on 11 just past the universities. sams is 1 mile from melgar, a 15 min walk or a 10 min jog. crew members will FLOCK to sam's, as will the local restaurants and larger businesses. it will do well.
however i have a major beef with them. they have with ZERO prudence, destroyed about 9 city blocks of what was once thick lush cool tropical forest. they have displaced more animals than you can imagine and did their demolition with no concern nor sensitivity of us neighbors. with windows closed, miscroscopic dirt dust has entered our homes. i have a perfect view of the entire property from my upstairs living room. we can't hang our clothes to dry during the day. my healing brochitis is worsening. we are fearful for the possibility of having a view of an ugly parking lot offering the kids from the local school a place to hang out and cause more trouble. or an ugly block wall. supposedly urban development is on their case, but it took letters and calls from neighbors for a week until they decided to spray water on the dirt before loading it into dump trucks. my view of the woods is forever gone. they left a measely dozen or so trees. if they left a border all around of trees, it would have helped...but NOOOO, bulldoze it all!!!! maybe sarah palin has stock in sam's.
i am not 100% against sams. in fact, i and my neighbors will be fighting to get free memberships for all the suffering we will entail over the next few months. i like some of the things in sams. and so will the cruise ships. the development of sams is part of a plan made in gustavo's time as mayor as part of creating the new centro. it will also serve as support for the infrastructure to create a home port in cozumel for more ships. API has already approved a new cruise ship pier 35 meters from the entrance of puerto de abrigo on the north end.... connecting it to the new pretty walkway! at least it is close to town. and look out....our soon to be former mayor has been appointed the director of tourism for quintana roo by our new governor beto borge. i fear for the architecture. ugh.
ok, enough from me tonight.
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#33 Carey

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 05:01 AM

Sorry for your problems, Nauticab! I haven't been out to view the construction and got the impression it was way further out. I don't consider the Maravilla neighborhood to be the boonies by any stretch of the imagination. I guess I didn't read the info closely enough and was invisioning Calle 11 around 95 to 110.
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#34 Charles

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 08:19 AM

The top luxury items are loud stero systems and large TVs. many many of the little people do not have refris...., they buy 1 liter of milk as needed, 4 or 6 eggs as needed, and even 1 roll of TP as needed. There is a lack of cultural knowledge by many foreign nationals......, why do you come here, buy a house and then want to change everything, complain about things that you can't get or are not the way it is in the US or Canada.

T


But Traveler, when you come from a superior culture, don't you have a moral, ethical even religious duty/ responsibility to impose your cultural values on a backward culture? What is needed is Boots for Mexicans! I know they may be hot and uncomfortable to people accustomed to sandals and flip flops (sorry Nauticab), but with proper boots, they can pull themselves up by their boot straps! Now if someone can design and manufacture sandals with viable boot straps, the national shoppers can lift themselves out of the consumerism state of despair. I know that many local couples maybe have only 3 1/2 jobs between them, couldn't the husband and wife try to work a little harder and take on extra jobs. Some might argue they focus too much attention on raising their children. Children should do fine on their own as long as they have a nice TV and an X box. Maybe Sam's can carry 12 hour diapers or it will help push children to toilet train themselves earlier.

Living without a refrigerator, oh my God! Refrigeration followed closely by air conditioning, then washer and dryers, these are basic essentials. I could see postponing a dish washer and garbage disposal if necessary for a while, but these kind people need to be lifted from living a heathen life of poor consumerism. They may need to cut corners and prioritise a bit in budgeting their incomes. Couldn't those kids shoes last another year or two with use of duct tape? Duct tape is great for patching thread bare clothing. People with growing children need to learn to buy larger sizes in shoes and clothing so they can serve longer.

According to the economic and cultural demographic survey conducted on the island in the early part of the Gustavo administration. This showed that a solid 17% of the populace did live in households with incomes of above five times minimum wage. Given the plunging dollar exchange rate, that peso minimum wage is worth more in dollars every week and you're talking more than $24 dollars a day household income for a solid 17% of the population. Now the other 83% population that live on 24 dollars a day or less per household, remember that includes getting paid for the 7th day, your weekly day off. Where else can you expect to get full salary for your day off? Gratefully that economic demographic survey was removed from online, but if I remember correctly only slightly more than 20% of the households on the island exist on one minimal wage salary or less. Chances are those lower income families were Mayan, not True Mexicans anyway. The recent survey I read in the last two weeks concerning the national indigenous population, these are resourceful people, they know how to hunt and gather, they can grow much of their food and still have the skills to weave the material to make their own clothes. A full 85% of the 17 million indigenous people did have cash incomes of $6,000 pesos annually. That's $500 pesos per month per household. $6,000 pesos annually goes a long ways to covering household expenses when they only really need to purchase soap and maybe a little salt. I know it is a long ingrained cultural tradition of obsession for cleanliness, they were bathing daily when our Western ancestors knew that monthly bathing was more than sufficient, even more so since antibiotics were invented!

I confess I suffered through a dark period of my life on the island. I came here with the mistaken idea that perhaps sacrificed creature comforts, denial of basic household essentials, might still provide a higher quality of life. In the religion of consumerism, quantity, not quality is the important component of life. It is with deep personal shame that I violated my basic cultural values. My first year in Mexico I lived without a refrigerator, but part of that time was in Chiapas during winter months when temperatures would drop to close or below freezing. I didn't have to pay for electricity besides rent, so I could use a 75 watt light bulb for heat. The first ten years I lived with a manual Mexican washing machine, a $20 pesos empty paint bucket (we even invested in two!) and a toilet plunger. Mostly only in isolated areas do people still go with the traditional clothes washing of scrubbing on a rock and rinsing in a stream. Our culture put a man on the moon while there are others that still worship the moon as a deity, how backward. I somehow survived for seven years before I purchased an AC as the sweaty hands were slowly my work and the AC enabled much greater product production, more sales which enabled me to pay more money to La Hacienda (SAT) my equal partner in business.

I happened to go to college (enrollment 75 students in private college) with Sam Walton Jr. Sam was the Jr to his dad running the show and the grandson of the founder. We operated from the same house as a base. Sam and his wife Holly are still good friends with the small handful of friends and former room mates I still keep in touch with in the upper/lower 48 States. When Walmart was invented by Sam the founder, he developed the chain of stores that came to dominate world wide commerce with the philosophy of putting the employees first above all else, but followed closely behind by consideration of the customers. Profits and the bottom line came in a distant third. Walmart still operated on this model after he had divided his billions and turned the operation over to his son. When the elder Sam died, my school mate Sam was on a river rafting trip (he has been self supporting since as a river rafter guide and a nature photographer) on the Grand Canyon. Two vice presidents were dispatched to find him and retrieve him back to Arkansas for the funeral. They suffered the indignity of having the hike down a trail to the river as inexperienced back packers and waited two days searching every rafting party that passed until they located Sam. The helicopter had been kept waiting on the Rim to whisk them to Las Vegas to carry them back to Bentonville. Since then the corporation rapidly and radically changed. Bottom line profits became the main priority, their consumers, the clients became a very distant second and the employees, nary a day passed that they were not constantly reminded, if you don't like it, if you don't like the unpaid overtime, if you can't take your fifteen minute breaks in five minutes or less, there's twenty people waiting to take your job. Now that is a business model that succeeds and has provided the base to expand all over the world. They create jobs and rarely are more than two jobs with better pay and benefits lost for every job created. Some people claim they are unfairly subsidized by the government just because some of their full time workers receive food stamps and qualify for Medicaid their incomes are so low.

I know a few people that worked for Walmart under the founder who considered it a pleasure, felt appreciated and said it was a great place and environment to work under. Since the corporate philosophy changed, they all have said they couldn't stand to work for Walmart again even if they received the same benefits and salaries as before. To their credit, Walmart might fight tooth and nail to expand into a new market, but when local opposition remains strong enough, they will abandon that locale and try to box around that region and still draw the customer pool away from the opposition area. Remember their big ad campaign to Buy American, with American flags flying all over the store...all the flags and most of the products were all made in China.

I hope that one day we might see an island that every home has a decent electric dishwasher, an AC even in a stick and lamina constructed house will reduce dust and the need for cleaning (just spray the dirt floor with water if you don't have cement or tile) and with a washer and dryer, people will soon learn the error in their ways and with all the improved efficiency and the extra time provided, they can find another part time job or two to try to pay for the electric bill.

So Traveler, we might have adjusted to the culture that existed here before, My God when Maxi's was the big super market and there was only one damn 24 hour La Retranca. I can remember a time when we went to Cancun every three or four months to buy Mexican products not available here. Way back when, there was no local discount for the ferry, locals and "national shoppers" had to pay the same price as the tourists. Round trip price was almost 1 1/2 times minimum wage. Now thank God, local residents can get a ferry discount card is they can provide the required comprobantes, they only cost $100 pesos (less than two days minimum wage) and with the local discount, round trip costs a mere three days minimum wage. God how we have progressed. Don't you think Traveler that everyone deserves at least a taste of the good life from north of the border? Remember every household appliance here helps to support two households in China and where besides China can you purchase an important body organ with a good genetic match?

To anyone unable to recognize truth in sarcasm, I hope you suffer the plight of running out of dish washer detergent and have to remove water spots with paper towels.
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#35 cvchief

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 09:25 AM

Paisano, mexicano, nationals all have the same meaning, I am a naturalized mexican......, we are "national shoppers". Our shopping habits and needs are different from foreign nationals living here, the majority of us do not have large 2 or 3 bedroom homes, there is no need for washer, dryer, large stoves with ovens, garbage disposals......, so on. The top luxury items are loud stero systems and large TVs. many many of the little people do not have refris...., they buy 1 liter of milk as needed, 4 or 6 eggs as needed, and even 1 roll of TP as needed. There is a lack of cultural knowledge by many foreign nationals......, why do you come here, buy a house and then want to change everything, complain about things that you can't get or are not the way it is in the US or Canada.

T


Traveler, I wasn't entering into the debate on what stores should be here or any of that and I am not complaining about anything I can't get. I just wasn't sure what you meant by 'national shoppers.' I had never heard the term before, so I wondered what it meant. I thought it might be mean 'mexican' but I wasn't sure since it came up with the track house thing. Thanks for the clarification.
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#36 CZMDM

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 06:02 PM

"I hope not. Sam Walton's enterprises have ruined many small businesses in the US, they are notorious for treating employees badly. I would hate to see them on the island."

You are in a very small minority if you have lived here and would not have welcomed a Sam's. Sorry but we need the same things as everyone else in the world and it's a bitch to have to go to the mainland to buy it.

The area on airport road is a bodega owned by the city for various construction projects.

My feelings about the treatment of Sam's employees (you are not going to like it).........if you don't like where you work quit. The benefits for the majority are the greatest concern. As far as ruining small businesses, you could say the same about Best Buy, Amazon, iTunes and a thousand other retailers.
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#37 nauticab

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 10:21 PM

in fact, the small businesses here can BENEFIT from sams in a big way. since they buy in bulk and sell by the piece, they won't need to travel to get their stuff. having a sams here can actually help with keeping prices in check by NOT having to cross for certain items.
the dust has kind of settled... they are focusing o laying some groundwork instead of filling up the dumpsters, so the flying dirt situation is under control, at least for now. the view sucks from our living room but at least my kitchen and front porch have beautiful views of my huge mamey and cayomito trees, blocking the bald site.
not thrilled about the potential problems with hurricanes, being so close to a massive building make mostly of lamina.
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#38 Carey

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 07:57 AM

not thrilled about the potential problems with hurricanes, being so close to a massive building make mostly of lamina.
[/quote]

lamina is that styrofoam type foam board reinforced with wire, right? Cut to shape, put up and then cover with a layer of plaster and cement? If that's what you're talking about, the sun roof on our jacuzzi three stories up in the air is made of that stuff and survived Wilmas completely intact. Same roof, however, the bitch took our heavy duty flag pole which was bolted with rather enormous stainless steel screws drilled into seriously heavy duty reinforced cement posts.

And even if the lamina starts flying, it's lightweight so I don't think I'd worry too much on that count. Can you plant trees and bushes to hide the hulking building from view?
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#39 TRAVELER89

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 02:23 PM

[quote name='Carey' date='08 April 2011 - 08:57 AM' timestamp='1302271033' post='10623']
not thrilled about the potential problems with hurricanes, being so close to a massive building make mostly of lamina.
[/quote]

lamina is that styrofoam type foam board reinforced with wire, right? Cut to shape, put up and then cover with a layer of plaster and cement? If that's what you're talking about, the sun roof on our jacuzzi three stories up in the air is made of that stuff and survived Wilmas completely intact. Same roof, however, the bitch took our heavy duty flag pole which was bolted with rather enormous stainless steel screws drilled into seriously heavy duty reinforced cement posts.

And even if the lamina starts flying, it's lightweight so I don't think I'd worry too much on that count. Can you plant trees and bushes to hide the hulking building from view?
[/quote]

The lamina that is normally used in this type of construction is "sheet metal" with a form type insulator, tied very well to a metal frame work......, not light at all, tornadors do more damage than hurricanes, the stores, Sam's, Walmart and the like in Cancun had very little damage, unless one of the wall collapsed.

T
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#40 ccannon707

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 03:12 PM

. API has already approved a new cruise ship pier 35 meters from the entrance of puerto de abrigo on the north end.... connecting it to the new pretty walkway! at least it is close to town. and look out....


I fully expected the north end to get some more development like at the old Sol Cabanas spot, but cruise ships? Really? Now THAT is hideously depressing.... :( :( :(

Nauticab, sorry to hear about your spot being torn up. Maybe Sam's will do some "landscaping" when they are done. Hope you & your neighbors get your free memberships.
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