Rental Car Liability Insurance
Posted 11 April 2011 - 11:01 AM
Posted 11 April 2011 - 03:09 PM
If I was to get in any trouble driving on the island, I would want Charles's and others from this forum advice and I would make sure my family posts on this board to ask advice through the process.
I really thank everyone for sharing their advice and knowledge!
Posted 11 April 2011 - 06:06 PM
Posted 12 April 2011 - 01:11 AM
What do I know about any of this? I have only been to the police station less than 50 times. I was the only foreigner to attend and pass the first defensive driving course required for driver license renewals and pass the test with a perfect score, a test that up to 30% of local adults were failing from problems of literacy. So what that I spent an entire Christmas Eve riding in the back of a police truck with the "SWAT" teams translating between team members and the gringa they were trying to protect. True I have been to the ministerio publico's office about 150-175 times, filed three penal denuncias, made numerous declarations. I only filed four complaints against the judicial officials with the Human Rights Commission, my complaint against the penal judge was sustained, I charged systematic discrimination against foreigners by the judicial system. Any idea of the complexity and difficulty in completing a discrimination complaint against a Mexican judge? Finding case law from a Chihuahua Supreme Court ruling that had the CNDH stumped on how to proceed. I did not finish any of the three complaints I filed against the ministerio publicos charging corruption and violation of rights, all three chose to resign and/or accept transfers off the island.
Here's the real simplified message to assist those on vacation here. If you should find your self on the wrong side of the law, the deck is stacked against you. If you drive a car, even if you purchase full insurance, best to have quick access to $5-10,000 dollars and speedy access to additional funds if needed.
Of critical need to know for visiting tourists, yes, there is a very high rate of alcoholism among island residents, many with Native American blood can be predisposed to having problems with the drug. Despite seeing untold thousands of North Americans acting drunk and disorderly, there are no special exemptions from the laws regarding driving while under the influence and alcohol makes you more at risk to being suckered into paying excessive prices for junk fake merchandise. We have covered PROFECO and how to file complaints and get your money refunded. I have won all 12 of the PROFECO cases I have filed or assisted in over the last 15 years.Hopefully with the new mayor, the amount of fake merchandise will start to plummet.
TC I suggest you spend longer than just February and see if you can make any sense of any of these laws and questions. It is Mexico and much worse, it is Quintana Roo and Cozumel. There are never EVER simple answers to simple basic questions. Go ask ten professional that should know, see if you get the same answer from two! We have a new mayor and a new governor today. None of the laws have changed, but how they are applied, interpreted in many ways, may be entirely different next week than last week. Just like your questions on insurance rates and why the inconsistencies, no one knows, no one can answer and even if correct today, it could be different tomorrow. Me Done!
Posted 12 April 2011 - 01:39 PM
Posted 12 April 2011 - 03:36 PM
Of course there can be some jousting back and forth, mostly because of misunderstandings, I think. It's sort of like sending email to someone when you probably don't take the time to think about what your fast fingers are typing before you hit send. It happens. I'm not saying its good or bad but it happens.
The board is a great resource of information. I just filter out what I need or what interests me and try to ignore the rest. My brain gets full fast anyway:)
I'd be sorry to have Charles or many of the others drop off the discussion. I've benefited a great deal from all the experience here and I appreciate it.
We'll be back towards the end of May for some diving and more house fixing/painting. Since I finished painting the inside of the place, now we get to figure out the colors for the outside. I never thought I could go through paint so fast, but then I've never painted a concrete house before either! Good fun.
Posted 13 April 2011 - 04:54 PM
This I believe is the intent of people who live there, everybody help and pay what is due. One other point I have an opinion about is that most of the people on this forum help out with the most dumb ass questions that people have, time after time ,about the same old stuff. I must admit that I have done the same and perhaps without the information gained on this forum would possibly have been in much worse shape when it came to gaining info before our purchase in Cozumel of our future home. Give the local posters a break as we all will suffer for it. Please to Paula and Charles, Do not get mad and continue to help this dumb ass thru the murky waters of living inMexico.
Posted 14 April 2011 - 01:53 AM
Don is a good, competent, congenial host, he does a good job of serving his guests and is a professional innkeeper. He is NOT a qualified, competent Mexican attorney nor legal authority. I'm not either, but if given the interest, energy and motivation, I will obtain the answer, but as always, what is correct today, may not be the same tomorrow.
I found an interesting post from someone that lives on Cozumel regarding the lost wages. Charles you seem to know quite a bit about Mexican law. Can you advise if this is correct?
NO THAT IS NOT CORRECT, YOU WILL BE REQUIRED TO PAY COMPENSATION FOR LOST WAGES UNTIL THE INJURIED PARTY IS SATISFIED, SIGNS OFF OR YOU GO BEFORE A JUDGE AND HE(or she now) MAKES A FINAL DECISION AND RULING. MY GUESS IS NONE OF THE CAR RENTAL INSURANCE COVERAGE PROVIDES THIS AND I HAVE MY DOUBTS ABOUT PRIVATE INSURANCE AS WELL. We do have confirmation that Isis is looking to include this coverage if possible and we have confirmation that the premium, Executive Car Rental $35 dollars a day (about the most expensive) does not cover it either.
Don was mistakenly talking about IMSS social security incapacity coverage which provides some salary compensation in accidents like if you fell off your roof changing a light bulb.
A car accident that you are judged at fault is treated as a criminal act of which you will be held until all claims are satisfied. This would be in the case of negligence, a true accident, resulting from lack of precaution, lack of paying full attention. Now if other criminal acts of reckless behavior is involved speeding or heaven forbid, driving while under the influence, the penalties will be severe. If your car itself should be illegally in the country, alcohol consumption is involved and you are in an accident, then you are looking at mucho money, confiscation of vehicle, not insignificant prison time before you are deported and prohibited reentry to Mexico for a period of years. Some people feel bullet proof.
Besides payment for medical expenses and vehicle damages, under responsibilities civiles. I lived within the judicial system between the years 2000 and 2002. I wondered if they would try to charge me rent, I spent so much time and money in the ministerio publico's office. There was better and easier online access to both the criminal and civil legal codes. There were revisions made after 2002 and again it appears changes made in 2008. Below is a brief over view, a PDF file, it runs about 295 pages,
[PDF] CÓDIGO CIVIL PARA EL ESTADO DE QUINTANA ROO LA HONORABLE II ...congresoqroo.gob.mxFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
13 Dic 2010 ... DE LOS ILÍCITOS CIVILES. SECCIÓN PRIMERA. DE LA RESPONSABILIDAD POR HECHOS ...... Positivo del Estado de Quintana Roo, y las de este Código son supletorias , ... Si la ley, reglamento, o disposición de observancia general fija el día en ... Sin embargo, los mexicanos domiciliados fuera del Estado, ...
In the early section it begins to cover the aspect of responsibility, a sloppy google translation....
Of responsibility for his own acts
Article 87 .- Every act of man, not a crime, run by the fault or negligence, whether
simple or intentional, that causes harm to another in his person or property, forced the author to repair
damage and compensation for damage in accordance with the provisions of this Code.
Somewhere between article 87 and article 3207, final publication of this document and assorted amendments was May 14, 2010.
I have spoken to two people that have had accidents recently (in the past year or so) that were required to pay compensation for wages. I have spoken to one person that received wage compensation. I heard of two other cases, the worst one was when the victim was in a coma, full settlement was prepared, but until the injuried came out of the coma to sign the agreement, the person remained in custody. In all these cases, people had "full liability" coverage and that insurance covered all damages and medical bills without hesitation. The compensation in these other cases would have been considered reasonable.
Critical message information here. If the police station is as it was before, the last time I was inside, there is a big counter after you walk in the front door. If you are standing or sitting on the outside of the counter, you may well be OK. If you are on the "other side", the wrong side of the counter, YOU NEED TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY, A COMPETENT ADVOCATE WORKING IN YOUR BEHALF.
I still have a minor interests in resolving some information issues here with the pastor. His situation was further complicated besides lack of an advocate, he could certainly not leave to attend to matters at banks, but then he ran into the currency restrictions too. His offer of $1000 each, which was probably within the ballpark of fairness, was all the money he could obtain, he had $1,500 dollars wired down and I guess that fell into the monthly money changing limit of $1500. The only practical means of obtaining the cash money needed to settle for the full amount demanded, was for someone to fly it down here. That is where the true madness of Alice in Wonderland, sentence first, then the verdict, pay us this money, but you're prohibited from obtaining it in any normal manner in the rest of the civilized and no so civilized world. I think this pastor will be on a personal crusade.
What had always been sound legal financial advice is that if in an accident and hurt someone, it would have been strongly to your benefit to back up and run over them again and make sure you killed them. Death compensations were always quite minimal, funeral expenses and maybe a few thousand bucks.
Hillbilly, you came here, you made some mistakes, you discovered that there were many aspects that were off the charts. It is a different country, no one should ever assume things to be as they are at home, but Mexico presents so many mindless complications, no sane or rational person could ever anticipate. You have been on a quick and steep learning curve since then. By the time you move here as planned, you should do well. Learn some Spanish, that will put you in the small percentage category.
Posted 16 April 2011 - 01:51 PM
I'm a little short fused myself as I'm currently not on the island. Instead I'm helping my 83 year old parents unclutter their condo. They are messy. They are packrats. I have thrown at least 100 lbs of papers alone into the dumpster in the last two days and I have yet to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Of course, at least I'm not sweatin' and swearin' like some other full-time locals. It was a very hot March and April promised more of the same with some bonuses when I flew out on the 6th. Heat makes people cranky, too. It's one thing to come on vacation and sit under a palapa sipping a drink then taking a dip in the seven shades of blue when you get a little hot and frizzy-haired. It's quite another to, say, oversee the replacement of a bum appliance while you soak through your shirt or run errands in an un-airconditioned car.
Posted 22 May 2011 - 12:51 PM
Before I begin, I would like to thank you all for your kind words over the years and the vast amount of knowledge that I have received from various contributors of this online community. Yes, it's easy to get feathers ruffled and to misinterpret what's being said. I've been guilty of that myself. <blush> With that being said, for the most part, I have found that people go out of their way to contribute, to offer advice, recommend services, and share their experiences. That has been of great value to me over the years. I just want to personally say "thank you" and tell you how much I appreciate your efforts to keep us informed and helping us to avoid some of the local mine fields! As a home owner here and a long time traveler to the island, your advice has been invaluable.
As many of you might know. I was a passenger in a rental vehicle (Jeep) that was involved in a car accident here in Cozumel. (I explained what happened at great length in a previous post some months ago. Sorry, I couldn't locate it, but I believe it's buried in the "Getting Around" section somewhere.) The car was rented by visiting tourists from Less Pay. They had paid for "full insurance". The driver was at fault. There was no alcohol involved. I suffered a head injury when the seat belt gave way, I went flying and my head hit the metal roll bar splitting my head open. I was in the hospital for 3 days. At the accident scene (which I remember very little of) I was taken to the hospital via ambulance and the driver was taken to the police station. The police were well aware that there was an injury (as stated in the police report). The manager of the rental car came to the police station and in front of 5 witnesses (3 of which spoke fluent Spanish) stated in Spanish and then again in English, that the driver did have full insurance through their company and that they should release the driver as the insurance would pay for all damages including any injuries. They released the driver, although no one spoke to me or came to me in the hospital! The very next day, the driver came back to the car rental company and paid them, in cash $1,500 USD, for the deductible. (I have a copy of that receipt.)
When I was released from the hospital, I went to the owner of the car rental company and asked for their insurance information. The owner put me off and said that I would have to come back and request it from the manager since he was the one who handled all these matters. Because, I was very weak and still not getting around too well, I telephoned and emailed the owner over the next few days and repeatedly asked for their insurance information. He continued to refuse to provide me the information and eventually became belligerent in the process.
I have not been able to force the company to provide the insurance information. I contacted Profeco locally and they suggested I contact Profeco in Mexico City to circumvent the politics on the island. However, Profeco is more for contractural obligations, and because I did not personally rent the car, they told me that there would be little that I could get them to do, since the contract was not in my name. Luckily, I did have a secondary insurance, which after many months of going round and round with both insurance companies, paid for some of the medical bills while in Mexico. Unfortunately, I do have a $2000 medical deductible and had to pay that and continue to rack up medical bills at home. In addition, because of the head injury,I have had to suffer through short term memory loss, migraines, neck and muscle pain and the costs for going to a neurologist, getting an MRI,EEg, neurological psych testing, etc. and was diagnosed with post-concussive syndrome, which is a fancy name for, "I can't remember sh*t, I get confused easily and I get wicked headaches!" Really, it has been a roller coaster ride, it's made it difficult to work and I wouldn't want to wish this experience on my worst enemy. The good news is that with therapy, I have started to see improvement.
I am wondering why they were able to release the driver without my permission or without someone agreeing to pay for damages. The rental car company tried to claim that the driver said he would pay for damages but we know that this is not true and there were several witnesses there who heard that the rental car company agreed to pay for damages because they had "insurance".
Why is it that they do not have to respond or do anything when a "tourist" is injured and the driver did their due diligence by paying the deductible to the car rental company? How is it, that they can REFUSE to cooperate and get away with it??
I can't afford to pay out even more money to an attorney, but it seems to me that the company has SOME liability. I have not ever been able to get a clear answer. Obviously, they have some requirement to have insurance coverage, right?? I can not go after the driver, as he said he paid the deductible to the car company and he did his part and the insurance he paid for should cover my bills and damages.
I am assuming that the U.S Consulate would not be of help in this matter? She did go and get the original police report for me and sent it to me via email.
I would appreciate some fresh eyes on this one.
Posted 22 May 2011 - 01:56 PM
Since PROFECO informed you that your situation was outside their areas of assistance you could seek civil damages, but the chance is somewhat remote. Perhaps you are left with some injuries which will hopefully improve over time. You walk a delicate line trying to again bring John into a situation.
Best of luck on your continued recovery and I hope that one day your issues with the condo get resolved. When you were first hospitalized at Clinica San Miguel, did they run tests that confirmed there was no alcohol consumption on your part too? I have seen the LessPay contracts and in big bold red print they state that alcohol consumption invalidates insurance, that can apply to the passengers as well, but when you paid your bill at CSM that pretty well absolved any insurance company as legally that could be equated with you assuming liability. And boy were you overcharged at both places. Sorry you have had such negative experiences in Cozumel, but hopefully you have and others will learn from your mistakes.
Posted 22 May 2011 - 05:22 PM
This is still recent to me and I still have many unanswered questions. I really don't
Posted 22 May 2011 - 07:37 PM
You lacked legal advice and representation originally. You then later claimed to have an attorney whom I would regard as the most competent on the island. Why are you seeking legal advice on a public forum when you had the legal services of certainly one of the most competent and professional on the island?
If you want emotional support for your situation, there are groups and forums especially for that. If your intended purpose is to bash John (as it appears), once again Gisela is the person to advise you. I thought that you had made considerable progress with recovery, wasn't that you riding the Sr. Frog float during Carnaval? Since I was not present at the police station (nor were you as you were at the clinic), I have no idea when, where and to what extent any legal rights and options you once might have had were compromised nor by whom. I have heard your stories and I have heard and seen John's side of the issue. Since you had the services of Gisela, someone whose legal ability I hold in highest regard, I can only assume that what Gisela had to advise leaves you struggling in futile frustration.
When you have various legal issues and questions, you seek guidance from your attorney. You have or had a real good one. If your interest is only in beating a dead horse, I suggest you follow the horse carriages and as the summer heat increases, you may have your opportunity.
Posted 22 May 2011 - 09:01 PM
That being said, I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt in murky waters. Which sounds like where we're swimming here. It would be great if he or an internet-savvy friend would post the other side of the story. Since there appears to be one.
Posted 23 May 2011 - 07:47 AM
Posted 23 May 2011 - 08:43 AM
OK. The topic was Rental Car liability Insurance (and coverage for lost wages if someone is injured in an accident). Since the discussion was on Liability Insurance and Injuries it seemed a fair place to discuss this. If you would like, I can delete this and copy and paste it into a new thread.
For now, here are my questions. Let's see if I can spell it out..
1. When there is an accident involving a rental car, is the rental car company required to provide insurance contact information to the people involved in the accident?
2. Is there some licensing entity on the island that requires a car rental company to have insurance?
3. If someone is renting a car from a car rental agency, are they able to request proof that the car rental agency does indeed have a valid insurance policy?
I haven't asked for legal advice on this forum, just good old-fashioned advice, like most others that post here. I come here to try and learn something. I have never tried to slander John's company either. If you have read any of my posts you can see that I have continued to be fair and stick to the facts. The only thing I have tried to do, over and over again, is to be provided with the NAME OF HIS INSURANCE COMPANY (Agent) and subsequent contact information (address and phone number).
The rental car company should want to cooperate and let the insurance company deal with it. Isn't that what they pay their premiums for? In the end, all he had to do was to come forward and provide insurance information and then the company would investigate. Right? So, you have to ask yourself, why would they continually deny my right to this information?
It really doesn't matter whose side of the story you believe and quite frankly, I don't care.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter whose side did what. It matters what the company did to cooperate and whether or not they were indeed carrying insurance. That's pretty plain and simple.
The important thing here is to understand that if you do get in a rental car and you are injured what are your rights?? Does the rental car company have an obligation to provide insurance information to the injured party? To the police? These are the questions I keep asking over and over again. I am sure there are many people out there that would like to know the answers so they can avoid having to go through what I did.
Just think, if Less Pay had come forward with their insurance and contact information right after the accident, then I would have had no reason to post any of this.
P.S. I have used Gisella for other matters not pertaining to the accident. I did not have the money to hire her to represent me for this. If Less Pay had provided their insurance information, than no matter who was at fault, the insurance company would have been involved, claims would have been filed they would have investigated and the claims would have been either approved or denied and it seems unlikely that the services of a lawyer would would be necessary.
Edited to add: Oh, by the way, Charles. Seeking answers to questions regarding my safety and protection when renting a car, is hardly beating a dead horse. I would like to, in the future, be able to rent a car from time to time but I am very reluctant to do so until some of these questions get answered.
Posted 23 May 2011 - 09:59 AM
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