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Robbery at DI tonight.....


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#21 Coz2wonder

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:02 PM

I'll buy mslf500
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#22 scubawoman

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:47 PM

I wonder about the training rent-a-cops get. Some of them look younger than my 18 year old grandson. Why are they hired to protect with no means to protect? Do the stores think by hiring them, that the store is actually safer?
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#23 cvchief

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 11:08 PM

As one who has intervened in a robbery in front of my house a long time ago....proper choice of firearms is impt. (small pistol, big pistol, rifle?)

Glad they caught the guys.

Our perp went to prison with a colostomy bag. "No officer, I never fired a shot. Why do you ask?"

(The long version is a least a beer long.)


Be there in December, Ill buy the beer.....
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#24 Coz2wonder

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 06:36 AM

article with pic's of 13 of the not so bright robbery team...

Run through your translator of choice.

http://www.poresto.n...idTitulo=119988

notice that they appear to dress the same, and hair is the same.

What, they are doing cookie cutter criminals now? :unsure:
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#25 cvchief

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 06:46 AM

But the "chicken" man mastermind got away. Someone is watching too much Breaking Bad.

Also the head police dude confirmed DI pays for a police officer in the area, but they did not give him a gun or a vest and he hid behind a hot dog cart to avoid being shot as he thought they were looking for him.

And why do MX criminal all get cool nicknames? The chicken man and rattles? Sounds like an old Dick Tracy.
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#26 Steve

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 07:50 AM

I think they were being over paid. $50 to $80 pesos each plus expenses. Thats to much money for armed robbery. When people see how much money they could make in this line of work, they are going to want in on the action.
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#27 cvchief

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 09:37 AM

Well, lets think about this once: What would YOU do for a free, all expenses paid trip to Cozumel and 50 peso spending money? :P
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#28 MarkC

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 09:44 AM

he hid behind a hot dog cart to avoid being shot as he thought they were looking for him.


LMFAO - I would have loved to see that... Sounds like something straight off Dukes of Hazzard
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#29 cvchief

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 09:54 AM

LMFAO - I would have loved to see that... Sounds like something straight off Dukes of Hazzard


I do feel bad for the guy. He did the right thing given his circumstances. I guess we should be thankful someone was selling hotdogs.... :P
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#30 crunch

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 12:57 PM

Thank you for posting this.


I come here because I want to know what is going on in the places where I travel.

Newbie - If I wanted a sanitized version I would go elsewhere. I understand you do not wish to discourage people and need the business, but I like to be forewarned and very much appreciate this site and the info from those of you that live there.

And, it doesn't make me think twice about may at all. Cannot wait!
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#31 DJDiverDan

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 09:01 PM

I know that this is just a bit off topic, but since there is talk about how armed robbers might be deterred by the thought of armed guards in the jewelry store, or armed policemen on the beat, just think about how much greater the deterrence might be if the armed robbers had to think about the possibility of armed civilians. I'm an attorney, and deeply interested in the Second Amendment jurisprudence here in America, and I'm just amazed at how many people can seriously argue in favor of banning the possession of handguns on the grounds that such a ban will reduce gun violence. Every bit of empirical evidence demonstrates that the opposite is true. In Chicago, in the one year after Chicago banned handgun possesion by civilians, violent crime rose by 67%. In the one year period since the Supreme Court struck down Chicago's handgun ban as unconstitutional in McDonald vs. City of Chicago, violent crime in Chicago has dropped by more than 18%; home breakens and robberies have dropped by a greater percentage. Gun bans NEVER stop those willing to commit crimes from obtaining guns - just look at Mexico. They only prevent any effective self-defense by those who want to obey the law. It appears that potential home robbers think twice about breaking into a home when they know that the homeowner may be armed and willing to defend his property. If you compare Chicago's crime statistics, or D.C.'s (which long banned all gun possession in the District, until that was struck down in Heller vs. District of Columbia), with those of Dallas or Houston, where Texas has a very long history of protecting gun rights, the difference is shocking; home breakins in Texas major cities are a small fraction of those in D.C. or Chicago. Robbers in Texas know that it's just too dangerous to break into a home in Texas, where the vast majority of the population is armed & willing to use those arms in self-defense. Frankly, I think that the violence in much of Mexico would start to decline fairly rapidly if Mexico eased or eliminated its draconian limitations on private gun ownership (restrictions which quite apparently do not affect either the Cartels or private enterprise criminals like the DI robbers) AND actively armed law-abiding civilians in the high violence zones.
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#32 Steve

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 09:33 PM

I have to agree with you.

...There's no such thing as a good gun. There's no such thing as a bad gun. A gun in the hands of a bad man is a very dangerous thing. A gun in the hands of a good person is no danger to anyone except the bad guys...
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#33 cvchief

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 09:53 PM

Oh, dear, a 2nd amendment debate. This will spiral down hill. I spent like an hour sipping a beer at the mosaic place in the plaza and arguing that case with a very nice guy. I try not to get into those kind of debates, but I must say we had a pleasant discussion, though I could not convince him and he would still take your guns.. Civil discourse like that is more and more uncommon.
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#34 CZMDM

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 07:25 AM

mb
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#35 DJDiverDan

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 08:00 AM

Didn't even want to post, but that is about idiotic. A gunfight opens up in a tourist area and you think the bullets are going to seek out the bad guys and stay away from kids and other innocents? The answer to the drug wars is for the citizens to become engaged in violence? I love the John Wayne mentality (not). Eight guys come into a store armed and someone thinks that the guard should have shot it out with them? I am sorry, but in the real world that is not going to work. I have been in that situation twice. The fact that anyone would be willing to engage in a gun battle over some jewlery is so ludicrous as to be insane.


I think you are completely missing the point - perhaps you are being willfully obtuse. There is a significant deterrent effect on potential criminals if they know that every potential victim they have targeted MIGHT be armed and prepared to defend themselve. Gun bans simply do NOT deter potential criminals; like any prohibition, it will ONLY affect the law abiding; it doesn't deter the criminal class one iota. See the case of alcohol in America's experiment with prohibition, or marijuana, cocaine, heroin -- just because they are illegal to possess or sell does NOT mean that nobody obtains the prohibited substance; it just adds a huge black-market profit for those willing to deal in the prohibited item, creating a new, very lucrative, and quite often violent criminal activity. So, it is NOT that I think a gun fight in a heavily populated area is a GOOD thing; to the contrary, it's a tragedy. But, as evidenced by recent events in Cozumel, and by far too many examples in the border areas with the United States, a ban on gun possession doesn't stop those tragedies from happening. The free availability of guns to law-abiding citizens in fact significantly reduces the odds that it ever will happen, and significantly reduces the incidence of the tragic events. For empirical evidence to this effect, compare the rate of deaths from gunfire in Cuidad Juarez, where possession of firearms is banned by the Mexican Government, yet it remains one of the most dangerous cities in the world based on mortality rates from criminal activity, with that of El Paso, just across the river, where guns are freely available to all citizens, yet it is one of the safest cities in the United States. For an apples to apples comparison, check out violent crime rates in Chicago, and compare the one full calendar year BEFORE the city imposed a ban on possession of handguns with the one full year AFTER that ban was implemented. Gun violence went UP by nearly 70% AFTER the ban on guns. So, please explain to me, with empirical evidence if you would, just why these gun bans are good things?
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#36 CZMDM

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 08:31 AM

mb
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#37 Carey

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 11:02 AM

boyz, boyz!

I believe you are arguing at cross purposes. Dan makes a very good case at least in my opinion for responsible gun ownership by civilians deterring criminals. But he is not in any way suggesting that a blood bath on Melgar would be anything less than a terrible tragedy.

The point he was making is that had those gunmen thieves at DI known that there were armed guards in the jewelry store, they probably never would have attempted the robbery at all. In fact, it seems highly likely that they would not have done so. They were counting on the fear factor and they counted correctly it seems. At least the two smart ones that got away did. Those other poor suckers? Well, more Darwin awards should be issued this week.

But I digress. If criminals can get guns -- and they certainly seem to be able to in Mexico now -- then you have a helpless population waiting to be preyed on. And that IS starting to happen in some areas.

But I guess one of the things that I fear about legalizing gun ownership for civilians in Mexico is then it starts this spiral where I might ultimately have to get a gun, too. Because one thing that's always reassured me about living here is that the home burglars typically can't get their hands on guns. So you catch one in the act and you can run him off with the machete you keep in your closet. Someone holding me up at gun point takes things to a whole new level. And if guns were legalized here, I think some of the lower level break in artists and moped grab and run purse snatchers we have always had to contend with here, would be using some of their ill gotten gains to buy pistolas. And that WOULD be a blood bath in the streets.
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#38 cvchief

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 02:16 PM

Well really what we have are what ifs.

CZMDM makes the several assumptions that a critical to his point. I would asset none of these are givens:

1. Armed guard and Police out front would NOT have stopped the robbery from occurring.

You cannot fairly assume that. The robbers may have chosen another target because this one is 'hardened'. Robbers don't want to get shot. They pick their targets and this one WAS attractive.

2. Should the robbers still have come, it would have been a bloody gun battle on Melgar.

That is certainly not guaranteed. I can give you many example of gunmen who dropped there guns because they didn't want to get shot. These mooks, I think, would have folded but I can't prove that any more than you can prove a bloodbath.

3. The robbers will never kill witnesses or bystanders during the commission of a crime and no one will get hurt (at least more than splitting their skull).

As it was you must accept that the guard who was struck in the head could have been severely hurt or killed? Should he have been killed by a skull fracture, would you maybe go back and risk maybe a few bullets flying so he can live? If I could be given the choice, I personally would accept the risk of a bullet flying to save the guards life. Besides that, while uncommon, robbers do occasionally get excited and shoot people for no apparent reason.

4. Shooting on the streets will hit bystanders.

Sure it could happen. Could just as easily be a well trained cop (as I suggest they SHOULD be) puts the vermin down if they don't surrender before anyone else gets hurt. I mean the cops pursued armed robbers and arrested them. Could not EVERY single arrest resulted in a gun battle where ever they found them? They took them in without incident. So they surrendered without a fight when cornered later, but the would have fought to the death at the scene? Doesn't make sense. Should the cops have located them and followed them until they were in a field miles from anyone before they tried an arrest? My point is just at some point the police had to take control of these guys, one way or another.

Of course I am FINE with the nobody have guns if you get ALL the uniformed people out harms way so the robbers don't feel the need to split their skulls. DI can give away all their cr*p. That is their call. Just don't setup a security guard and an unarmed cop to get killed.


I mean I get you point. I would tell anyone to NOT resist a robbery and give whatever property to avoid being injuries.

On the other hand though, that amounts to betting on the other person and that they DON'T hurt you. For myself, I would have to quickly decided whether it seems a good idea to bet on the criminals intentions or my ability to defend myself and those with me. That isn't a gun debate, it is a personal feeling. I don't want to be left saying "Why did he do that when we were cooperating?"
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#39 cvchief

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 02:28 PM

So you catch one in the act and you can run him off with the machete you keep in your closet. Someone holding me up at gun point takes things to a whole new level. And if guns were legalized here, I think some of the lower level break in artists and moped grab and run purse snatchers we have always had to contend with here, would be using some of their ill gotten gains to buy pistolas. And that WOULD be a blood bath in the streets.


Actually the vast majority of burglars commit their crimes without guns. They aren't conflict guys, they are thieves. Also why risk the enhancement of a gun crime? Plus many or even most of them really don't want to hurt anyone, they just want your bling. Oddity, there is phenomena that some burglars actually have to 'use the facility' during a burglary because they are so scared and nervous. Often just been seen will scatter them like cockroaches.

Probably the criminals who would use guns, already are. I mean even illegal as they are, there doesn't seem to be a problem getting them. Even on Coz haven't most of the drug murders been firearms? Not like the had to Luca Brasi them, right?

Maybe you could throw scorpions or tarantulas at them? :P

The machete image is a little disconcerting though.... I'll make sure to call before I visit.
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El Jefe

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#40 Cozgirl2

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 02:33 PM

I worked with Diamonds International for more than 12 years and we had always had meetings about what to do when and if one of our stores were ever robbed.
The MAIN reason the security guards are there is to keep an eye on the passengers who enter the store and make sure they do not steal any merchandise. Most of you on this board know how packed these stores get, and because of the security teams that have been placed in each store there is very little theft that occurs because they are constantly walking the floors and watching the sales that transpire at all times. They are not armed because panic buttons are carried by certain people INCASE something like this happens. Also DI has had police outside their stores in the morning while they are setting up their stores, and they return later at night when the stores close down. No matter how much training you have had as a security guard or employee, when 8 armed people enter your store and tell you that they are going to rob you, it is only human nature to try to flee because of fear for your life. I cannot even imagine the adrenaline rush that these employees experienced. Whether these people were a group of punk kids who did this, or if it was Drug Cartel related at this point it does not even matter. What we have to focus on is that these dedicated employees are mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, and many are personal friends of ours. It could have been much more tragic IF a gun fight broke out and lives were lost. At this point there is still thousands of dollars of merchandise that has not been recovered and at the end of the day these watches are just material possesions. You cannot put a price on a human life.
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