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#21 imkennedy

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 05:46 PM

I was wondering why you concluded the Microdyne was junk. I would not be surprised but how did you come to that conclusion?
I did a bit of digging around some of the scientific literature and there does not seem to a be a clear winner for food disinfection.
The FDA simply recommends washing, without soap or detergent. See
http://www.fda.gov/f...umers/ucm114299
Of course, if you do not like the Cozumel tap water then does not help much.
Then I found this article from a Korean group

Evaluation for Efficacies of Commercial Sanitizers and Disinfectants against Bacillus cereus Strains
Author(s): Kim, IJ (Kim, Il Jin)1; Ha, JH (Ha, Ji-Hyoung)1; Kim, YS (Kim, Yong-Su)2; Kim, HI (Kim, Hyung-Il)3; Choi, HC (Choi, Hyun-Chul)3; Jeon, DH (Jeon, Dea-Hoon)3; Lee, YJ (Lee, Young-Ja)3; Kim, AJ (Kim, Ae Jung)4; Bae, DH (Bae, Dong-Ho)5; Kim, KS (Kim, Keun-Sung)1; Lee, C (Lee, Chan)1; Ha, SD (Ha, Sang-Do)1
Source: FOOD SCIENCE AND BIOTECHNOLOGY Volume: 18 Issue: 2 Pages: 537-540 Published: APR 2009
Times Cited: 4 (from Web of Science)
Cited References: 16 [ view related records ] Citation Map
Abstract: Bactericidal efficacies of various sanitizers and disinfectants against 10 Bacillus cereus strains isolated from Korean foods and 8 standard B. cereus strains were investigated. The sanitizing capabilities of ethanol, iodine, chloride, quaternary ammonium, hydrogen peroxide, and peroxide acetic acid were investigated using the EN 1276 method based on quantitative Suspension testing. The resistance against sanitizers and disinfectants was higher for wild-type than standard strains, and the bactericidal activities decreased in dirty conditions. Ethanol, chlorine, and iodine at the maximum level allowed under Korean food sanitation laws showed a great effectiveness against B. cereus. Hydrogen peroxide at 1,100 ppm showed the lowest bactericidal activity against B. cereus. These results indicate that the legally allowed maximum concentrations of sanitizers and disinfectants in Korea do not reduce all B. cereus strains by at least 5 log(10) CFU/mL.

IN this case peroxide was not so effective. Probably depends a lot on the bacterium and the food surface etc. It is not clear that there an accepted, high efficiency bactericide (that you want to ingest if you leave it to dry on your food.) Bringing down your own potassium iodide and mixing with alcohol, not internally, might be a way to go.
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#22 Charles

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 08:08 PM

I was wondering why you concluded the Microdyne was junk. I would not be surprised but how did you come to that conclusion?


Iodine has a long proven track record at killing assorted hard to kill organisms. Microdyne used iodine. At some point, what is sold here was changed to colloidal silver which is very suspect in effectiveness. Coloring the product to look like it was still iodine based, does not help the credibility.

Colloidal silver is used in a number of snake oil products that make claims from curing cancer, AIDS, an absolute miracle product that will turn the medical world upside down. The Mayo clinic is brutal in denouncing any and all health claims. Silver does have valid disinfectant properties, how it might compare to chlorine, I don't know and it is all but impossible to gain any information from a credible medical/scientific source.

In many parts of the world both water and all vegetables are 100% contaminated, iodine remains the preferred treatment. Boiling water for 15-20 minutes is effective as well, but few people like lettuce, assorted greens based salads to be boiled.

Most of the produce we receive here is produced by giant corporate farms just as in the United States. Indeed some of the produce is imported and approved by the FDA and is identical. I go with the mostly safe theory, but it is fact that safety and effectiveness is far from 100%

The fruit and vegetables I used to get in parts of Mexico (Chiapas as an example) and across Latin America was mostly produced in small family farms, fresh, picked that morning or the day before, but the extreme third world conditions, widespread contamination, no truly potable water and minimal sanitation makes everything a risk. Even being cautious, I have contracted assorted bugs a half dozen times. It goes with the territory. My personal record was giardia and two different amoebas, a total of three at the same time.

When you see a mountain stream that might have been pure at its head waters, people upstream have constructed outhouses over the water, farther downstream people are bathing and washing clothes and then lastly, the stream becomes the principle source for both drinking water and washing. Few tourists will ever venture into these areas.

The whole "don't drink the water in Mexico" borders on myth today most often perpetuated by gross over consumption of low grade alcohol. I'd rate things here as on par for the most part as the U.S. both below 100%. I would hope it would be rare for a person to go on an all day rot gut alcohol binge at home in the States, but if they did, chances are they wouldn't blame the salad they ate the day before. It seems that many equate excessive alcohol consumption as an essential part of a vacation, but then they worry about the ice cubes. Beer itself is safe, I have had to drink beer when there were no alternative beverages, but I am talking extreme locations and conditions until I could return to improved conditions.

It used to be the norm here to take Flagyl once or twice a year. Overall sanitation and the sanitation of the produce brought to market has improved dramatically. I'll continue to wash things in tap water on both sides of the border, and try to maintain sanitary conditions from cutting boards, knives and hand washing.

My personal belief is H202 may be the ticket and worth doing. I have high confidence in cleaning situations and hydrogen peroxide is my primary defense in dealing with a widespread mold situation that would condemn most of the houses and buildings in the town I live in North of the Border.
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#23 Carey

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 07:34 AM

I was wondering why you concluded the Microdyne was junk. I would not be surprised but how did you come to that conclusion?
Bringing down your own potassium iodide and mixing with alcohol, not internally, might be a way to go.


Kennedy -- thanks for the potassium iodide idea. Imma gonna do that. As to the microdyne, Charles beat me to the punch on that. Used to be there was iodine in this product. Then all of a sudden must have been at least 6 years ago they switched the formula. Active ingredient is collodial silver and they add gentian to the solution to make it red so you don't notice you're no longer getting iodine. Collodial silver which I appear to be spelling wrong?? has been disproven as a disinfectant. Oddly, that is even what they are using in the Baker's Choice or whatever its called vegetable wash drops that are sold at Sam's Club!

I am sure the tap water has improved very considerably. However here are a few things to consider. #1. Many people with amoebiosis don't present with any symptoms. So you could have it and not know it. In some few people, over years, it can cause liver and other problems. I think I read somewhere only 10% of people present with symptoms.

Secondly, in terms of e.coli infection problems, I continue to be cautious about the tap water. Yes, I'm sure it's WAY better than it used to be. They have been working on it. However, there's an interesting piece of information about the sewer system here on Cozumel

Yes, we HAVE a sewer system. Which is really quite amazing when you consider that, as hard as it is to believe, Merida, Cancun and Playa del Carmen do NOT. And that was advanced thinking and just a great feature of living here over one of those other places mentioned.

However, the black water waste pipes were laid in the SAME ditch right next to the tap water supply pipes. This means that, however unlikely as it might be, a rupture at some point in the two pipes could cause a very serious contamination problem.

This is indeed frustrating trying to figure it out. The peroxide article for which I paid $35 US. Sigh made me feel comfortable with a 1% peroxide soak. But that isn't very economical not to mention you have to keep lugging the stuff home from the store in large volumes. (If 35% was available locally, that would be more the ticket, now wouldn't it? Anyone know if it is? Prolly not as it's kinda volatile.)

Anyway, I've gleaned a lot from this discussion and thanks to all for your input. I think I"m going to proceed as follows with produce from now on.

Rinse thoroughly in tap water. Then allow to dry followed by a soak in a bucket of purified water. When I can get back to the states this late spring/summer, I'll import some potassium iodide unless I can find it here which may be possible. And, in fact, it may be sitting on the shelves in the DORI pharmacy which carries a lot of fascinating stuff, let me tell you, and make my own 'real' microdyne drops.

If anyone gets to DORI before me, please report if you are able to find potassium iodide -- el iodide de potasio--el ee-oh-DEED-eh day poe-TASS-ee-oh.

Next gotta figure out the ratio of alcohol to iodide. I note the straight stuff "reacts violently with water" More research work needs doing here -- unless you have a link for us, Sr. Kennedy??
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#24 cvchief

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 07:59 AM

Future Por Esto Article?:

"A Cozumel woman was blown sky high today in what may have been a terrorist incident. Police sources said the woman appeared to be trying to booby trap lettuce for exploding salads. No targets were mentioned. Friends of the woman report she was simply cleaning her vegetable when it went off and apparently she wasn't aware it was loaded, but police aren't buying it. The woman only identified by her nickname "The Mysophobia" was said to be a long time Island resident."

Caption to photo "Lettuce and body parts litter this El Centro neighborhood"
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#25 Carey

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:05 AM

Ja Ja, Chief. I'm here to say I'm still alive and kicking. In case you were referring to my, um, current obsession.

Potassium permanganate in a .001% solution looks like a potential winner and may be available here, by the way.
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#26 imkennedy

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 11:42 PM

Sr. Kennedy here. I have seen a recipe for tincture of iodine made from KI and alcohol but so far I cannot relocate it. As a note on colloidal silver, it should not be dismissed as a bactericide. It is nanoscale silver that is typically a few nanometers in diameter. This is probably the most commercialized product of nanotechnology so far, next to carbon nanotubes. Nano silver particles are now being used in clothing, e.g. socks, to eliminate odor from bacteria. Samsung puts it in washing machines and fridges to eliminate bacteria. It is actually quite an effective bactericide. Direct comparisons to iodine, quaternary ammonia, chlorine and others have not appeared in the literature yet as far as I can see. however, no one knows what Microdyn actually has in it. I would not be surprised if they skimp on the silver. I have seen one article on line claiming that they have used colloidal silver since 1955! But the form of the silver i.e. size, purity, crystallinity etc may make a difference. So although it might have colloidal silver in it, we do not know how much or how effective it is. A solution of potassium iodide with alcohol, to provide free iodine, or Lugol's solution, of known concentration, would perhaps be a safer bet if you are really worried.
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#27 Carey

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 06:46 AM

Sr. Kennedy here. I have seen a recipe for tincture of iodine made from KI and alcohol but so far I cannot relocate it. As a note on colloidal silver, it should not be dismissed as a bactericide. It is nanoscale silver that is typically a few nanometers in diameter. This is probably the most commercialized product of nanotechnology so far, next to carbon nanotubes. Nano silver particles are now being used in clothing, e.g. socks, to eliminate odor from bacteria. Samsung puts it in washing machines and fridges to eliminate bacteria. It is actually quite an effective bactericide. Direct comparisons to iodine, quaternary ammonia, chlorine and others have not appeared in the literature yet as far as I can see. however, no one knows what Microdyn actually has in it. I would not be surprised if they skimp on the silver. I have seen one article on line claiming that they have used colloidal silver since 1955! But the form of the silver i.e. size, purity, crystallinity etc may make a difference. So although it might have colloidal silver in it, we do not know how much or how effective it is. A solution of potassium iodide with alcohol, to provide free iodine, or Lugol's solution, of known concentration, would perhaps be a safer bet if you are really worried.


Here is a quote from an interesting article. (Direct link to read full article is provided below it.)

"Past NIH tests of fecal coliform contamination of commercial fruits and veg, in Mexico City consistently found high levels of salmonella in almost all samples, due to the use of “organic” (fecal) fertilizers and contaminated irrigation water. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17061512

So, just what works, and what doesn’t, if you want to keep yourself and your family safe and healthy?

The NIH study evaluating Mexican vegetable contamination found that the silver colloid based disinfectants (like microdyne, biodyne, etc) lowered fecal coliform (pooh bacteria) counts, but did not eliminate them, and these same silver colloid products did not remove salmonella typhi risks in any samples."

http://yucalandia.wo...tion-in-mexico/
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#28 cvchief

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:40 AM

OK, I surrender. I am now scared to eat a salad in Mexico. I may worry about the lettuce on my plate.... I am going to order a shot of tequila and dunk anything green on the plate in the tequila before I eat it....
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#29 KAC

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 09:06 AM

Okay, I too have read both articles and I must continually dodge the bullet, because I have never really been inconvenienced by the end problems of all of the bacteria. I think the saving grace is that the articles are from 10 years ago and things have come a long way since then. I remember coming here prior to the year 2000 and wouldn't think of eating the way I do now. I have to admit that my meat consumption drops when we are here and I make sure that it is well cooked, but I am not quite as diligent with my produce washing. I typically rinse really well under water with a little dish soap and eat.

Still alive and still kicking.
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#30 Carey

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 09:50 AM

I think the saving grace is that the articles are from 10 years ago and things have come a long way since then.


Good to point that out. However, I am thinking Microdyne is still using the same formula. This is an assumption based on no evidence. Just speculation because of the If It Ain't Broke Why Fix it Rule. If sales continue to do fine, why upgrade the formula.

I could have SWORN that back in 2000 microdyne used iodine in the formula and only later switched to collodial silver with gentian added to make it look like iodine. But it could well be that this was also an assumption on my part, one that a person would naturally make since the liquid was artificially colored to make it APPEAR that it was iodine based. As Charles has pointed out, that ALONE, kind of points a finger of suspicion at the product. Why would they want people to make this assumption???

I have it on my list to look for potash de permanganate -- postassium permanganate crystals at the DORI farmacia this week. Apparently this works real good and does no harm to the body as long as you figure out the forumula that will create a solution containing .001% tops. Which might be 15-20 GRAINS in a basin of water.

Also will check on Sr. Kennedy's helpful suggestions re iodine and alcohol.
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#31 imkennedy

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 11:56 AM

The reason the alcohol is required, or the Lugol solution if alcohol free, is to release free iodine. Using just iodide crystals alone will not do the trick. The recipe is out there somewhere but I have not found it again. One of those cases of having seen it once, then not bookmarked it.
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#32 Steve

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:33 PM

How abut grapefruit seed extract?

"All microorganisms tested were inhibited with moderate levels of GSE liquid disinfectant. High levels of chlorine bleach inhibited the test organisms, but moderate levels were not effective. Because the GSE liquid was inhibitory at much lower levels, it may be assumed that it is ten to one hundred times more effective than chlorine against the organisms used in this study. On average, GSE proved to be ten times more effective than the colloidal silver."


http://www.landofvos...ngtips/gse.html
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#33 Coz2wonder

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:24 PM

grapefruit, seed extract,juice, concentrate can interfere with medication BIG TIME.

I thought there was a study that with all this anti-bacterial STUFF has now made people MORE susceptible to strains of bacteria they would not normally react too.

I am grateful that I played in the dirt as a child, and still do as an adult.

Source; CNN-Money
Title; Maybe We're Disinfecting Ourselves Too Much ANTIBACTERIAL EVERYTHING

This article offers some interesting things to think about.
http://money.cnn.com...67009/index.htm
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#34 Steve

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:53 PM

I don't know anything about it. I use tap water myself. It seems to me that whatever you use you are going to rinse off anyway so what difference does it make. I don't think anything that has been mentioned is very good for you if you ingest it. Use a lot of lime juice and eat habanero peppers.
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#35 imkennedy

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 06:05 PM

Finally found the link to the formula for iodine tincture. You need iodine, potassium iodide, alcohol and water (sounds like a margarita might work). Go to

http://www.ehow.com/...e-tincture.html

I would not rinse it off. A bit of iodine probably won't hurt.
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#36 Carey

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 07:10 AM

Finally found the link to the formula for iodine tincture. You need iodine, potassium iodide, alcohol and water (sounds like a margarita might work). Go to

http://www.ehow.com/...e-tincture.html

I would not rinse it off. A bit of iodine probably won't hurt.


Thanks, Sr! You're as indefatigable as I am on this subject and your input is much appreciated. I tried to purchase both potash de iodide and postash de permangamento at the DORI farmacia yesterday. They looked in their computer. And came up trumps. I'm sure I could find a place that sells chemicals somewhere in the Yucatan but I think I'm going to see what I can do with "Isodine" the iodine-based disinfectant for wounds they sell there. Will check concentration of iodine, of course, and anything else that might be in it besides alcohol and water which might make it harmful to ingest at any level and will give that a go if it passes those standards. Will have to figure out how much to dilute, of course. Will post when I get the bottle today or tomorrow.

The potassium permanganate sounded an interesting solution but, as AJ points out, they'd never let me on the plane with a highly flammable oxidizer like that.

Oh, also DORI pointed me around the corner to El Maharaji, mini grocery and restaurant where, she said, they sold the Baker's Dozen large bottles of vegetable wash, same ones I've seen at the Sam's in Playa. Went over and checked the bottle again. Also collodial silver and gentian. But at least this bottle gave the concentration -- .05% collodial silver.
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#37 imkennedy

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 11:37 PM

One more thing about disinfecting. I just back home (California) after a USDA conference in Florida. It was about nanotechnology and food. I asked some one there, who is expert about bacteria and food, about methods of sanitizing food. He told me that the commercial methods use one of three chemicals: H2O2 (peroxide), quaternary ammonia (you do not want that stuff), or bleach. Mechanical washing of smooth skinned fruit should be the first step. OF course, not possible with leafy vegetables. In that case, based on our discussion, I would opt for the bleach followed by a bottled water rinse. I also learned of a new organic antibacterial agent, derived from the oregano plant as an oil - carvacrol. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carvacrol for details. It is available commercially but looks to be quite expensive to use in the required doses. It can also react with the organic material present on produce so a good wash first is essential. But it is organic and harmless and may at worst leave a slight flavor of oregano.
Nano silver and iodine are not used commercially.

I think I will go back to bleach and forgo the undetermined Microdyn, for reassurance if nothing else.
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#38 Carey

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 08:52 AM

One more thing about disinfecting. I just back home (California) after a USDA conference in Florida. It was about nanotechnology and food. I asked some one there, who is expert about bacteria and food, about methods of sanitizing food. He told me that the commercial methods use one of three chemicals: H2O2 (peroxide), quaternary ammonia (you do not want that stuff), or bleach. Mechanical washing of smooth skinned fruit should be the first step. OF course, not possible with leafy vegetables. In that case, based on our discussion, I would opt for the bleach followed by a bottled water rinse. I also learned of a new organic antibacterial agent, derived from the oregano plant as an oil - carvacrol. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carvacrol for details. It is available commercially but looks to be quite expensive to use in the required doses. It can also react with the organic material present on produce so a good wash first is essential. But it is organic and harmless and may at worst leave a slight flavor of oregano.
Nano silver and iodine are not used commercially.

I think I will go back to bleach and forgo the undetermined Microdyn, for reassurance if nothing else.


Thank you so very much for following through on this for all of us!! I did follow up on what is available here iodine-wise just FYI. They sell a product called Isodine which is exactly the same compound as Bentadine. It is povidone-iodine (PVPI)which is pretty much all you can buy when you want iodine in the states unless you special order it, apparently. The compound is considered vastly superior to iodine tinctures as it slow releases the iodine over time making it great for, say, wound and surgeon's hands antiseptic uses.

However, it would be quite the job to calculate how much to put in, say, a gallon of water for a vegetable wash. Because, although PVP-I contains from 9-12% available iodine calculated on a dry basis, the amount that would be made available in a 30 min time frame as a vegetable wash would be significantly lower. One survivalist site (yah, they're in to this kind of thing, of course) speculates bentadine as having a 1% iodine availability.

So until and if I can get that problem ironed out so as not to poison me little self with de red stuff, and because the concentration of peroxide need to be pretty high and therefore expensive to use on a daily bases, I guess we're back to the old cloro solution.

You would happen to have a guess how MUCH bleach would be enough and not too much in, say, a gallon of Cozumel tap water, would ya? Or is that another topic that needs to be researched?

On another note, I should mention, sourly, the farmacist at Dori directed me around the corner to El Marajani for the big bottles of disinfectant that "all the restaurants on the island use". It was the Baker's Choice solution I also saw sold at Sam's Club in Playa some long years ago. Chess. Collodial silver and gentian coloring. Booh.

Once again, Sr Kennedy, thanks a mil for your help on this!
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#39 imkennedy

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 11:17 PM

I am waiting for further information from my Food Science colleague about the correct concentration of bleach. Stay tuned. (PS, actually I am Ian, not Sr.)

On another topic, I heard today that two of the local youth were hopping around on my first floor balcony last night, after jumping across from the neighbors' roof - who were fortunately home and yelled at them. One of the daredevils jumped about 15 feet into the street, the other managed some other form of exit. Ave 25 bis. Good to have neighbors who are at home and who are on the outlook.
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#40 Charles

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 04:58 AM

Ian, I think Carey is using the abbreviation of señor because it is too damn hard to figure how to get the letter ñ on these American lap tops. I use google translate to get that letter when writing in Spanish. Yes, always beware of roof top as a security breach. I had t-shirts stolen from a clothes line that had to involve crossing three roof tops to get to my clothes line. I was second story with mostly empty lots and single floor houses.

I really haven't worried about these things in many years. Since I am on my fourth round of heavy duty antibiotics, plus anti-fungal medication, I am concerned that the twin three week periods of steroids in a nine week period has left my immune system and normal body defenses in a highly compromised state.

From my extensive backpacking daze, primarily in extreme desert regions, I was always trained to boil or use iodine. Chlorine will kill the regular stuff, but only iodine or related chemicals could prevent the heavy duty stuff, the giardia lamblia and worse. I wanted to look at what wikipedia is currently saying, I often use wiki as a good starting point and then research deeper by their references. http://en.wikipedia....Giardia_lamblia latest update February 2012. This article mentioned boiling water for drinking for one minute. I was taught and it seems in natural disasters when city water system is compromised is to boil at least 10-15 minutes. I have months and months of research time in a region that I had access to contaminated river water, most often clear, or from an old mine shaft and I never knew what mineral was being mined, but within that region 15-20 miles both asbestos and uranium was mined. I needed three gallons of water per day. The only way to function was to devote every other day to obtaining water and return to my base camp. Working with two, elite at the time back packer stoves, I could produce a little more than three pints per hour above what I needed during the process. Or use iodine was the commandment.

Paula's message #33 brings up my long standing concern of killing all the good "bugs" to get rid of the dangerous. I think the whole concept of massive corporate farming and massive corporate processing has changed our entire dietary balance. Those of us in the age, we ate dirt, we washed our hands, but there wasn't the mass, total eliminate all germs from our bodies inside and out.

We know that chlorine is not completely effective, it has its limitations. Presently I am way more concerned than I ever have been of the regular stuff that chlorine can manage (BTW I have been eating a very large salad daily using the package "pre-washed" lettuce and greens mixtures before adding chopped carrots, onion and assorted additive which besides peeling and a light rinse in tap water , have had no chemical treatment.) I have changed none of my habits, but think it might be wise to return to a former era when I used bleach, hoped for the best and expected to take Flagyl once a year.

First I clean the sink using straight bleach, wash well and after rinsing, a second rinsing in boiling water. That gets my preparation equipment ready. Any fruit or vegetables that looked like they needed it, visible dirt say, it would wash first. I have added a couple of cap fulls of bleach to a sink full of water. Striving for at least a strong public swimming pool chlorine. Rubber gloves protect the skin on your hands as you gently agitate all the material. When I was through using my hands, I'd allow a five minute soak time to let any possible debris sink to the bottom. Then I would remove and rinse well several times with tap water before using "better water". Most of us use Cristal brand, it is better than most, but if a pot of Cristal was boiled in advance be superior? I try to rinse well, with cold water to try to maintain crispness. I then try to dry with clean bath towels and lots of paper towels blotting up the excessive water. Then I take approximate single serving size (salad for two) and compact a bundle wrapped in a paper towel and compact it to fit in a zip lock bag. This takes the whole kitchen and a couple of hours of preparation time, but I want a sufficient quantity to last for at least a week, My prepared lettuce will stay fresh and viable in terms of crispness as long as any packaged, ready to eat lettuce.

It is work and it requires space, I take over or require all my counter and table space. This is my basic method I use in Alaska from food grown completely free of chemicals, fertilizers or pesticides. This lady hand picks off bugs or caterpillar by hand Her methods are pure and perfect, but the soil is grossly contaminated. Seriously toxic waste, Super Fund clean up site.

Its work, but I like my salads, after at least a couple of cheeses, the third has to be goats cheese. Real bacon bits and then I like lemon or lime juice as a base for a dressing,

Finally and most importantly when you have it all finished, when you sit down to eat, you drop every concern and delight in all the flavors, textures and surprises. My college room mate as a part of one of his classes weighed every portion, every ingredient added to come up with a calorie count. He came up with a calorie count of 3,500 calories per serving. Now that is a salad that is a meal and worth all the time and effort in preparation.

This will be my plan and only because circumstances have really compromised my immune system, If and when I stop antibiotics, then i can start rebuilding my intestinal flora. My bottom line is that unless it is obviously fresh, from a small truck farm with obvious visible dirt, I think the difference of risk is small between Mexico and the U.S. The average tourist who fears the dreaded revenge, should be far more concerned with over consumption of rot gut liquors most places use with the balloon hats and the big souvenir long glasses.
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