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#21 MarkC

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:20 PM

I think it is - helps relieve sexual frustration :D



"overdosing is pretty much nonexistent". TRUE.


:P :P :P :P
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“Corona con lima, Corona with lime... Todo el tiempo, hey all of the time... Con mucho gusto, I’m havin such a good time... Corona con lima, Corona with lime...”

#22 morenita

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:41 PM

I recently read that antibiotics are prescribed in 40% of the cases of the common cold. Which could be why we are seeing a decrease of their effectiveness. The emergence of antibiotic resistant bacterias, "superbugs". Doctors say that people expect them, as one of the main reasons for prescribing them. I know Doctors here who prescribe antibiotics when they know they will do nothing for you for the same reason. The public expects it. Or prescribe things for infants that are unnecessary because of unrational phobias the parents may have due to preconceived ideas. And a parent is going to expect something because they do not want to see their baby suffer. It is difficult for a Doctor to tell a parent that a running nose or a slight fever is nothing serious to worry about. And they just need liquids and rest and let it go its course. It does happen.

I would never take an antibiotic unless I thought it was absolutely necessary. I do not use them. Not because I don't believe in them. I do. But I also think their overuse decreases their effectiveness and I want to keep that option open to me for if and when I might really need them. Antibiotics have no effect against a cold. It is a viral infection.

Most sinus infections, but not all (some are bacterial) are viral. It is generally thought if they last for 10 days or less they are viral, and antibiotics will have NO effect. They will normally go away within 10 days with or without medication. If they last for more than 10 days then are thought to be bacterial and a more acute sinus condition in which case antibiotics have been shown to be effective. This is a generalzation, and not allways the case.

In the United States the majority of antibiotics are used in livestock. Estimated to be as much as 80%. A very serious problem recognized by the United Nations.

Modern day chemo (chemical) therapy and antibiotics go all the way back to the 19th Century in Germany when a scientist by the name of Paul Ehrlich discovered that a certain dye would color a certain bacteria cell and not color another. He hypothesized from this that you could come up with chemicals that would attatch to a bacteria cell and leave unharmed the other cells.

This helped lead to the invention of penicilins which have been very effective against serious disease.

Antibiotics and penecilins work in different ways. Some with the cell wall others with the enzyme and others cell membrane.
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#23 morenita

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 10:37 PM

all" docs i have dealt with here are FOR THEM"

I know several doctors who, have patients who have used Homeopathy and beleive in it, will prescribe them along with other prescription medicine. Their point is do not take something away if it has positive effect with the mind in helping to cure illness. Their basic point is there is no harm in prescribing both because a placebo can have no detrimental effect when used along with prescription drugs. And that is how many view homeopathic medicine, a placebo, and it works. Their point is there are no measurable ingredients so it can do no harm, and seems to have a beneficial effect with some.

This is no judgement. I am not going to state my personal opinion. Just relaying what I have learned in discussions with a few doctors here. This has been there experience and that is their position.

If you think it works good for you. There is no harm. No side effects, and no reaction with other medication. I have no doubt you can find Doctors here who would prescribe it. You say it works for you. I accept that.

I will not say if I think it does or doesn't work.

My intent is not to critique here just to understand it

I will say I was posting hoping someone would enlighten me, but so far I have learned nothing I did not allready know. I am still hoping someone has some more understanding as to why it works, and a better understanding behind the methodology.
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#24 nauticab

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:17 PM

artgirl, see my earlier post for the link for the homeopathics i have been using. all the different remedies are there. good luck. i love the stuff, swear by it (my symptoms go away within 3 days of the first sign and if a 6 month old child gets well immediately, there is no placebo effect), and i have not extensive research on it nor will i.
"natural" shampoos are not the same as ORGANIC shampoos. they usually just use some natural ingredients with everything else. however, if you of where to get ORGANIC shampoos and conditioners here in cozumel, i would love to know.
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#25 morenita

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:56 PM

POR AMOR A MEXICO, una linea de shampoos 100% organicos.

You can buy this here.

But I make my own with water, Jabon de Castila, unas gotas de acete. You can add any natural scent you like.

Works as well as anything I have bought. And I know what is in it. And it is very inexpensive.

Your description of your six month old baby sounds like a perfectly normal occurence. Teething on average starts at 6 months with the lower front teeth and at eight months with the upper front teeth. With the first set, the discomfort can dissappear as quickly as three days. But for some there may appear to be no relief for some 6 to 8 weeks. The reason being that in certain cases it can seem that the first set runs right up to the start of the next set. The discomfort usually starts when the teeth start to push through the gum. They can emerge as soon as 3-5 days later and the discomfort will go away. And a couple months later it starts again. With others it can be much longer as you suggest ( 2 months). When the teeth have emerged enough the discomfort will subside and the baby will start sleeping a few more additional hours with each consecutive day. Just as you have described it. And some infants will only show noticeable discomfort with these first two pairs and the later teeth at 10 months to one year do not seem to be as nearly problematic.

And the molars and incisers which can appear from a year and a half to two years are rarely as big of a problem. Some babies will actually show almost no discomfort with any of their teeth only noticeable chewing.

I am only saying that what you are explaining is a totally natural process. To me it sounds like a completely normal occurence. And coincidence cannot be entirely dismissed as a real possibility.
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#26 morenita

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:34 AM

The placebo effect in infant teething


1Annetta K.L. Tsang
The University of Queensland, School of Dentistry, Australia
Corresponding author:
Dr Annetta Tsang
The University of Queensland, School of Dentistry
200 Turbot Street, Brisbane QLD 4000, Australia
Tel: (07) 3365 8095 • Fax: (07) 3365 8199
Email: ak.tsang@uq.edu.au
48 INTERNATIONAL DENTISTRY SA VOL. 12, NO. 5




Despite uncertainty surrounding teething pain per se,
most prefer to manage teething actively using a
combination of non-pharmacological and pharmacological
means. Given that evidence supporting the presence of
teething pain is inconclusive and the efficacy of most
current therapies against teething pain is yet to be
determined, the risks vs. benefits of using various therapies
must be considered with great care.

The placebo effect must not be overlooked.

For example, applying a gel of
20% benzocaine in polyethelene glycol may give only a
modest benefit over applying the placebo, which gives an
efficacy of 60% compared with 90% for the active
preparation.60 Moreover, the efficacy of such topical
applications is limited by dilution of the active components
into saliva. The limited benefit of using topical gels for the
duration of teething (24-36 months approximately) is
further argument against such practices.


Most will not understand this. But you can google the entire article.
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#27 Charles

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 03:18 AM

I love organics and not just from my five years of working and study of Organic Chemistry. Organic by definition means it contains the carbon atom. Kind of a personal favorite organic would be CN, cyanide, carbon, triple bonded with Nitrogen with room for another say toss in a hydrogen atom and you have hydrogen cyanide. What could be more organic than that? Diamonds, carbon subjected to very high pressure.

The wife takes some "natural and organic medicine" it has to be good and safe as it is organic. Most drugs and medicines have a foundation from plants and I remind her that I consider both cocaine and heroin to be "natural and organic". Hey one is just an extract from leaves and the other comes from sap from a flower pod.

I started buying a PDR (physicians desk reference) every other year since the early 1970s. By no means a Bible of reference for medication, it is at least a collection of most of the fine print that doctors rarely read put out by the pharmaceutical companies. A Merck Index was a good companion reference book. Long before the days on the Internet, I never took any drug, any medicine without researching and having some level of understanding of how it was suppose to work and potential side effects.

During my adventure in salud in Mexico and having to deal with IMSS to preserve and protect my working FM3, I suffered weeks of insults and insults to my intelligence. After a botched hernia operation I had to pay for because the IMSS doctor thought the bulge in my groin might indicate a kidney infection, not a strangulation of intestine. For weeks they insisted it was all in my head and I was fine. When I lost it and demanded the x ray and urine tests or I'd contact Human Rights in Mexico City, they finally ran tests. They discovered that indeed somehow the surgeon had ruptured my kidney, it was still bleeding and somehow, most likely kidney stones had been expelled through the side of the kidney as there were stones that were not in any of my internal organs or where a stone should go. Then they became mystified how I had managed to survive, how I was walking...was I in pain? Yes, I have been in excruciating pain for weeks, what do you thing a ruptured kidney feels like, it was worse than a bad case of kidney stones I had eight years earlier. After weeks of denial, my doctor then took me to their emergency room and asked the attending physician to give me some very strong pain medication. He brought out two pills, said they were extremely strong medicine, I should only take one half a tablet at a time they were so strong and to wait at least 12 hours between dosing. With "trembling hands" he handed me the strong medicine with the warning to be careful. Oh my God, I replied, this is Tylenol and isn't even extra strength. I could take both of them and it wouldn't even help me with a headache.

Placebo effect can be very powerful. IMSS back in the early 1990s was certainly relying upon that. It is always interesting to read drug studies of symptomatic relief with placebo control groups. Often there isn't much difference.
One of the more interesting jobs I had was being a maid, errand boy etc in San Fransisco (actually Oakland). I was first hired to clean and conserve their collection of antique furniture. I so admired and loved their taste in Iranian carpets, could actually identify some of the tribal patterns, so I hand cleaned their collection of Persian rugs another well paid six week project. I then took over many of the household tasks to free up the family matriarch. I then spent half my time chasing all over Oakland and occasionally San Fransisco Chinatown, filling "prescriptions" for all kinds of "medications" prescribed by her guru as she was very devoted to non-traditional. The one time it bothered me, that I presented a strong argument against it was in obtaining ephedrine/pseudoephedrine from a source plant Ephedra sinica which had been prescribe for her 13 year old daughter. Having experience in performing plant extraction, I know there can be a huge variation in the content of a particular plant compared to one growing ten feet away at the same location. Never mind the potential potency issues from plants from different sources. I had no problem with an adult who wants to play laboratory rat and act as a test subject. I have had and continue to have a lot of experience of a laboratory rat myself. I didn't want to play a role in obtaining an all natural, all organic and straight from the bush medicine from plant leaves, but I successfully argued that I didn't think it appropriate for a 13 year old to take an unknown quantity because she had developed a runny nose.

I research everything that a doctor has ever given me and/or made an informed decision about whether the risk, potential benefit was worth it. I have used cabello de elote in tea, the hair from ears of corn that is supposed to have benefit to the kidneys and is widely used locally for kidney stones and other kidney related problems. I have brewed a tea from a combination of plants, bark and berries that a noted bruja prepared for me in Chiapas to benefit my kidneys. A friend brought me the same from a brujo in Oaxaca. In this case I knew "western science" offered no solutions and I was more than willing to roll the dice with local remedies made through centuries of knowledge passed down through the generations. I had a guest come for a week's visit that had never been out of the State of Chiapas. A man in his late 70s with vast knowledge of plants, trees and their medicinal properties. He was a campesino who grew up and spent most of his life in an isolated corner of Chiapas. He didn't consider himself a brujo, a healer, but had always looked to the plant kingdom for whatever his or his family's medicinal needs were. Much of his life he was two days of horse back riding from the nearest "clinic". The man looked at a forest and he could see a drug store, we spent two days exploring the plant kingdom here as many of the species were different, but close to what he knew from the highlands of Chiapas.

Me, I'd want to know what I am taking and that would certainly apply to any homeopathic medicines. I am very open to "Eastern philosophy" treatment, what I had today would certainly do no harm. I don't have the faith I feel necessary to use most homeopathic "medicine", but I am strongly skeptical and have no blind acceptance of our supposed "Western philosophy" of medical treatment. I greatly prefer and have more confidence in Mexican doctors than the those in the U.S. The whole U.S. health care system is so broken, doctors are afraid to think and act on their own judgement. They must rely on a battery of every conceivable advanced diagnostic machine to either rule out or confirm anything before proceeding with a treatment.

Americans and certainly no other nationality could imagine the Third World level of medical care available in Alaska. That is why I am more than happy to pay $3 dollars per bottle of lisinopril here. A doctor's visit would probably cost $300 dollars for the prescription and then I am actually connected by road to Seattle, I wouldn't have to fly. The minor problem if I got in a car and drove, I could get some level of medical care with some pharmacies only 850 mile to the north in Anchorage. The other option to access what most take for granted is to drive the 1835 miles to Seattle where I could get most anything basic as one could expect in most small towns USA.

I have been under the care of a physician here for three months. I feel he is competent, has been compassionate and I have no complaints. The only problem is it hasn't solved the problem so I am now returning to my traditional form of medical treatments which uses a combination of both my education, experience and my intuition. If I can't receive a satisfactory result then perhaps I will try farther south. Panama has a good and affordable health care and offers some drugs not available in Mexico, It is too hot and I don't like the heat. But Chile, they're at the end of their Summer and soon will cross over to Fall. I personally can't see what would be considered homeopathic medicines playing a role, certainly not if their ingredients aren't listed and no product testing studies can be provided. I'd hold them up to the same level and degree of scrutiny as I would any medication from a pharmaceutical laboratory. To each, their own, make your choics, but I always vote for informed decisions.
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#28 morenita

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:08 AM

"I personally can't see what would be considered homeopathic medicines playing a role, certainly not if their ingredients aren't listed and no product testing studies can be provided. I'd hold them up to the same level and degree of scrutiny as I would any medication from a pharmaceutical laboratory. To each, their own, make your choics, but I always vote for informed decisions."

Many actually do list their ingredients (well sort of, they just can't be measured, because they no longer exist it). The whole methodology behind Homeopathy is that it subscribes to the "law of infinitesimals". That means each ingredient has been diluted so many times in water that there does not remain a single molecule of the original substance which can be measured. The theory is that the water retains the memory of the original ingredient. Most cures listed are from 6X to30X but products of 30C or more are sold. The X's and C's represent Roman numerals and if you pick up a bottle you will see this on the label. A dilution of 30C means the original ingredient has been diluted 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times. Oscillococcinum, or the cold and flu treatment, has an 200C ingredient that uses the liver and heart of a duck, Anas Barbariae Hepatis Et Cordis Extractum ( wild Duck liver and heart extract). Look it up http://www.vitasalus...dicine?limit=15 . It is freeze dried and rehydrated, diluted and added to sugar. If a single molecule could survive the concentration would be 1 in 100200 that number would have 400 zeros in it, more than all the molecules in the universe. With a 30X pill you would have to take 2 billion of them to get one measurable molecule. A 200C dilution is inconceivable

It would be a percentage of:
.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of concentration of the original ingredient.
If you were to take 1 part (1%)of an ingredient and add 99 parts (99%)of water, then shake it then pour off 99% of the water leaving 1%. You add 99 parts (99%)of water shake and do this 200 more times each time pouring off 99% of the water. You are left with water. The manufactures admits it is water. But the catch, and here is where you need allot of faith, they claim the water has a memory of the original ingredients. Scientintists say its impossible. And the laws of chemestry say that after a certain dilution, way before this point, it no longer has a single molecule of the original ingredient. So they are selling water with the memory of the original ingredient or as they say the "essence". Or with a pill the water is added to a benign compound to make a pill. But this defies all laws of chemistry.

"In its February 17, 1997, issue, U.S. News & World Report noted that only one duck per year is needed to manufacture the product, which had total sales of $20 million in 1996. The magazine dubbed that unlucky bird the $20-million duck."

The treatment for allergies and hayfever contains arsenic, well sort of, because these products are diluted to a point where no molecules are left so most all would agree that it can pose no risk. Where I agree with proponents here is it can do no harm. No side affects. No risk when used with other medications, pregnancy etc. No risks at all. Water can do no harm.

For any chemists out there who understand avogadros number homeopathy is totaly inexplicable. When the last molecule is gone they claim its memory remains. And by "shaking" it you can release the spirit or the "essence". This is refered to as "the memory of water. This is why I ask its proponents to explain to me what "shaking" does. You will hear many who use these products talk about "shaking" ("also a quick shake of the bottle before opening supposedly helps activate the ingredients a bit more") but they will tell you they are not sure why or what it does. No one has been able to tell me they know what "shaking" is or its purpose. All of this is supported in Nauticabs article that she references in her first post. Its an excellent article. And I definitely recommend it. It says that there is no supporting science from physics or chemestry to support this methodology. It defies all laws of chemestry and physics.

Some claim it is like an immunization "like cures like" but immunizations have measurable ingredients and produce antibodies which can be measured in the blood but homeopathic products have no measurable response or any measurable active ingredients.

I am hoping that someone who uses it, who believes in it, and who understands it can please explain it to me. . So far no one has, not even doctors, and it is not for lack of me trying. For those who say it works for them, I believe them, placebos work. I question what is taught to me in medicine and require proof. There are many prescription drugs I would really hesitate using. Just yesterday it was reported that the largest selling drug for high blood pressure may cause memory loss. Many drugs are pulled off the market and for good reason. That is why we never stop asking the questions. I apply the same principles to any alternative medicine that I apply to my own studies. If it works tell me how and why. For those who say it works I would never question their sincerity. I believe you.

How accupuncture may relieve pain is uncertain. But at least there are a couple of medical suggestion of how and why it might work. One theory is that it stimulates the production of endorphins which are like a narcotic in reducing pain. There are a few others which I find very doubtfull. But this suggestion actually has some merit. I do not really accept the idea that it blocks the pain from reaching the spinal cord and ultimately the brain. Another is that overstimulation of one area reduces the pain in another.

Clinical research of new drugs is allways done with a group that are given a placebo to see how the results of the group using the actual medicine compares. "Placebo effect can be very powerful". We should never accept the claims of drug manufactures with out question. "I'd hold them up to the same level and degree of scrutiny as I would any medication from a pharmaceutical laboratory". As stated before some drugs are taken off the market years later, but there are drugs that really do work wonders in improving lives. We should never stop research to find out which ones work and which ones do not. With which ones do the side effects outweigh the benefits. These are important questions. The same criticism should be applied to all. Show me, prove it if you can.

Does water retain the memory of an ingredient that can no longer be measured "the memory of water"? Can its "spirit" or "imprint or "essence" be released by shaking it? Is this the miracle cure for all that it claims to be?
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#29 morenita

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:05 AM

This is from the article which was referenced in the first response to my inquiry. From Nauticab's post.
I suggest going there and reading the entire article. It is excellent and very well written.

Controversies Regarding Homeopathy

Homeopathy is a controversial area of CAM because a number of its key concepts are not consistent with established laws of science (particularly chemistry and physics). Critics think it is implausible that a remedy containing a miniscule amount of an active ingredient (sometimes not a single molecule of the original compound) can have any biological effect—beneficial or otherwise. For these reasons, critics argue that continuing the scientific study of homeopathy is not worthwhile. Others point to observational and anecdotal evidence that homeopathy does work and argue that it should not be rejected just because science has not been able to explain it.

The principle of dilutions (or “law of minimum dose”) states that the lower the dose of the medication, the greater its effectiveness. In homeopathy, substances are diluted in a stepwise fashion and shaken vigorously between each dilution. This process, referred to as “potentization,” is believed to transmit some form of information or energy from the original substance to the final diluted remedy. Most homeopathic remedies are so dilute that no molecules of the healing substance remain; however, in homeopathy, it is believed that the substance has left its imprint or “essence,” which stimulates the body to heal itself (this theory is called the “memory of water”).

I have never been refered to any scientific study by a proponent of homeopathy. And none have been mentioned here. Scientists can not come up with any suggestion as to why it would work. And it defies all laws of chemestry and physics. Those are facts. until proven otherwise.

Yet people who use it swear that it works for them. I do not doubt them. I believe it works for them. It is not supported by science. But they do claim it really works, and symptoms go away.
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#30 cvchief

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:44 AM

Placebo effect can be very powerful. IMSS back in the early 1990s was certainly relying upon that.


Charles,

The whole post was great, but that bit about IMSS was a true dry, sarcastic masterpiece. From talking to people and the articles in the papers, it seems that IMSS has moved now to a self service model? Like give you a bed and stick you in corner and not do anything? I loved the Por Esto (Yes, I know but it is fun to read. I read books of fiction too!) article about natural child birth today.
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#31 MarkC

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:34 AM

I wonder if mole sauce can be used to treat illness....
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#32 cvchief

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:37 AM

I wonder if mole sauce can be used to treat illness....


That and buy some of the Agave plants that are for sale and we make ourselves some organic tequila?
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#33 morenita

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:49 AM

"More research never hurts. Proven throughout the centuries isn't really that scientific. Bloodletting was proven through the centuries. Now, not so popular. Not to say there isn't probably a lot of useful stuff out there. Without research, who can say what really occurs? For instance, the placebo effect has been noted over the years, so individual results have to be suspect. The stronger the belief, the greater chance your body might be reacting to the belief and not the substance. Of course, whether it is the power of your head or the pills, if it works, great".

I agree chief if it works GREAT. And espescially if it is used for something like a cold or teething that is going to go away on its own. I will only caution someone to not use as a replacement to other medicine. There should be no harm at all in using them combined with other medication, because they are totally non toxic in combination with other medicine. If it is working for you that is terrific.

I totally agree with this from Nauticabs article:

If You Are Thinking About Using Homeopathy
Do not use homeopathy as a replacement for proven conventional care or to postpone seeing a doctor about a medical problem.
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#34 MarkC

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:16 PM

That and buy some of the Agave plants that are from sale and we make ourselves some organic tequila?


LOL! Theres a reason the cozumel mole is a hunted creature...
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#35 morenita

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 01:10 PM

[/quote]
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#36 nauticab

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:16 PM

i would suggest getting in touch with dr lozano who is a local physician and is also certified in mexico in homeopathy. that will be your best resource to find out WHY and HOW. obviously no on this forum will be able to give you the answer or they would have spoken up by now.
and regarding my kid, when the 2nd batch of teeth starting to come out, he slept "like a baby" once he got the meds in him again. on the first day.... his suffering on the 2nd batch was for weeks too, but as soon as he took the teething tablets, he was fine, almost within minutes.
he starts getting a runny nose and the mucous is GREEN. i mean really green and thick (sorry for the visual). 1 day of the sinus remedy and nothing else, and it turns a light yellow. 2 days later it is pretty much gone. he suffers no pain during these healing days.
anyone who has had sinus infections knows that they last much more than 3 to 4 days if not treated medically.
if it is a placebo effect but works, i will keep spending those $8 per bottle per year to keep myself and my family healthy.
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#37 artgirl

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:14 PM

Hello again Nauticab,
I tried the link a couple times but it just says, "page not found". Don't know why it won't link-up as others have commented here that it works. Perhaps another route to the information if you have it?? Thank you.
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#38 nauticab

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:55 PM

artgirl
www.vitasalus.net
on the left is a list of what they sell and there is a part for homeopathic medicine. been using these for 14 years.
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#39 cvchief

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 06:53 AM

I will let you to make your own judgement, but in 2008 Robert Cloutier, apparently the owner of Vitasalus, paid a settlement after being sued for selling items on the internet and claiming them to be cures for cancer. FTC
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#40 MarkC

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 10:07 AM

I better stop talking about mole sauce being the cure all then... I dont wanna get sued! LOL
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“Corona con lima, Corona with lime... Todo el tiempo, hey all of the time... Con mucho gusto, I’m havin such a good time... Corona con lima, Corona with lime...”




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