Jump to content


Photo

Bug Spray Do Not Use Deet


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
49 replies to this topic

#21 nauticab

nauticab

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,940 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Cozumel

Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:21 AM

everyone here on this board knows how "passionate" you are about medicine and all the studies that support YOUR beliefs. you, as anyone else, can find all the research that supports your side of the story.
you keep referring to reef safe as citronella oil. please, enlighten us on ALL the ingredients of reef safe. (some of which are extra oils to cover up some of the unpleasant odors of some oils, just as they do with deet products, cause the stuff stinks)
OTHER INGREDIENTS: Ethanol, Aqueous extracts of : Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Extract,Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Flower Extract,Symphytum Officinale(Comfrey) Root & Leaf Extract,Taraxacum Officinale(Dandelion) Leaf Extract,Echinacea Purpurea(Coneflower)Extract,Sambucus Nigra(Elder) Flower Extract,Panax Quinquefolium(Ginseng)Root Extract,Macrocystis Pyrifera(Kelp) Extract, Lavandula Angustifolia(Lavender) Extract,Cymbopogon Schoenanthus (Lemon Grass) Extract, Althea Officinalis(Marshmallow) Root Extract,Achillea Millefolium(Yarrow Flower) Extract,Camellia Sinensis(White Tea) Extract,Algae Extract (Hawaiian Seaplant),Acrylates Octylacrylamide Copolymer,Isopropyl Myristate, Octyl Palmitate, Octisalate, C12-15 alcohols benzoate, Cyclopentasiloxane, Octyldodecyl Neopentanoate, Citronella Oil, Eucalptus Oil,Fir Needle Oil, Lavandin Oil, Litsea Oil, Camphor Oil, Patchouly Oil, Yara Yara and Orange Oil
i see a little more than citronella here... and it has been found over and over again, even in the "journal" that the # 1 natural mosquito repellent = Lemon Eucalyptus oil. so you bringing up citronella as the only ingredient shows that your research is not complete.
again, i will reapply if needed and i don't let my kid play in the yard at dusk and dawn when they are MOST active. geez morenita, get a grip on reality. i have always had to reapply deet products too. often just as much if not MORE than with reef safe. my first post stated that to each his own on deet vs non deet, that reef safe is a VIABLE option.
all of your research seems to also be in line with the pharmaceuticals.... very typical of a young doctor wanna-be. (this is not an insult, it is fact, sorry if it hurts.... but your professors and the entire medical field, as you should very well know, are governed by these chemical companies and do their research to push their stuff instead of a more natural way of healing). and this is effective. deet doesn't work on everyone. THIS IS A FREAKING OPTION.
but like i said, you discredit EVERYTHING i say when it comes to viable alternative options. my "personal field studies" simply reinforce others on this product. you are NOT a doctor yet, and my doctors on this island support the use of homeopathics, herbs, and natural sunscreens/repellents when effective. i trust THEIR opinion and their years of expertise HERE ON THIS ISLAND, more than that of a research obsessive med student. and this is effective.
deet doesn't work on everyone. again, THIS IS A FREAKING OPTION.

but then again, best to ignore all i say, because i sell inferior products and have had incredible success in all sorts of natural remedies that are in contrary of the all knowing one.
  • 0
Cabrilla's Sport Center
Calle 11 % Melgar y 10av
Edificio Portales, Local 1
Dressing Fishermen and Triathletes from Head to Toe

#22 MarkC

MarkC

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 843 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:DFW

Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:28 AM

IBTL
  • 0
“Corona con lima, Corona with lime... Todo el tiempo, hey all of the time... Con mucho gusto, I’m havin such a good time... Corona con lima, Corona with lime...”

#23 nauticab

nauticab

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,940 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Cozumel

Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:30 AM

:P
  • 0
Cabrilla's Sport Center
Calle 11 % Melgar y 10av
Edificio Portales, Local 1
Dressing Fishermen and Triathletes from Head to Toe

#24 morenita

morenita

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 409 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:41 AM

"Expedition is a natural Citronella spray ". Give me a break. Reef Safe is a Citronella based product with the main active ingredient being Citronella (which is derived from lemongrass) with alot of other junk and fragrances. I never said it was the only ingredient. Yes all products have lesser ingredients. When I talk about a product with DEET that is 25% DEET of course it has other ingredients. But get REAL. Reef Safe is a citronella based product. The active ingredient is Citronella. And by going on listing all the minor ingredients is pointless and sophomoric. But when you have no facts than I guess that is all you have. Yes I trust in the studies. And the World Health Organization and EPA and Center for Disease Control are not Pharmaceutical companies. They have alot more credibility than you or I or your homeopathic Doctors will ever have. So keep up the insults, but these products are equivalent to overpriced snake oil and God forbid someone buys your product and comes down with Dengue because you did not do your research and they could have purchased a product which has been proven and safe. DEET. I have no financial stake in DEET so save your lectures. It is safe and the most effective product to repel mosquitos.

Yes I know I have to hear about all the evils of modern medicine and washing wounds with Doctor Pepper etc. etc. etc. Fifty solid years of research means more to me than what your opinion is of Modern Medicine. I would never be beholden to the Pharmaceutical companies. You do not know me so please with hold judgement. I have no personal stake here. I am not selling any products. I am only stating the facts. What you sell is of very little effectiveness. That has been well established. DEET is the best prevention.

You really do take this all way to personal. My objective is to keep people safe and healthy. And to recommend things that serve that purpose. If someone is promoting something that I know to be ineffective I will say so. I am just as harsh with my friends and family when they keep mixing up the alcohol, baby oil and clove mixture. These things provide very little protection. Reef Safe is in the same league. Overpriced oils and herbs and fragrances ( but primarily citronella) that do very little to work as a repellent. I am not commenting on how good of a sunblock it is.

And really do not take things so personally. I am concerned about the health of all, You, your son, your family everbody. And when I can provide good information I will do so. Maybe you should rethink your own "research".

I never claim to be "all knowing" or better than anyone. I have not done the research myself. I am just conveying fifty sound years of exhaustive research. That is all. But in the abscence of any actual facts or data yourself, if you need to resort to insults to try to make a point. So be it. I am not personally offended. I actually think it makes one look very small. You are not attacking me but fifty years of studies by people who know alot more than you or I. You really do need to not take this stuff so personally. I do think that the product you sell is pretty worthless. But that is not a personal attack on you unless you invented the product. Just saying be familiar with what you sell. Nada mas.

This whole thread was started by someone saying do not use DEET. And them refering to an erroneous study. I could not let that stand and mentioned that DEET is safe and the most effective product on the market backed up by fifty years of studies and the CDC WHO (not the band)and EPA. And it saves lives. Then you entered here trying to sell an inferior product. I felt obligated to point out that what you are selling is a very mediocre product and that DEET is still the safest and most proven effective product out there.

"research obsessive med student" Ouch that really hurts. NOT. I would rather be informed than uninformed. When someone does not have any facts on their side they resort to insults.
  • 0

#25 MarkC

MarkC

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 843 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:DFW

Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:03 AM

Hang on a second... It just dawned on me...

REEF SAFE???

Are you peeps actually suggesting:

1. That fish and corals cant be bit by mosquitos?

2. That mosquitos can’t swim?

3. Or possibly that the underwater environment only uses deet free insect repellant...???

Then again, I do not recall ever seeing a grouper with a mosquito bite.

But I digress.
  • 0
“Corona con lima, Corona with lime... Todo el tiempo, hey all of the time... Con mucho gusto, I’m havin such a good time... Corona con lima, Corona with lime...”

#26 nauticab

nauticab

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,940 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Cozumel

Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:10 AM

when you are basically saying that i am being a bad mother by placing my child at risk of contracting dengue by using this product and selling an "inferior product" and therefore placing my customers at risk, i am taking it personal.

i never said don't use deet. i have used deet and if i forget my stuff, i use it without hesitation. people who got dengue and who DIED of dengue last year, used deet too. it is NOT a guarantee!

best protection is to stay indoors during the peak times (day break and sunset), avoid grassy areas, wear long sleeve pants and shirts, use a mosquito net hat, wear light colored clothing, avoid being outside after heavy exercise, and basically don't breathe, cause it's the carbon dioxide that attracts them.

give me a break morenita. yes, it is the main ingredient, but there are many other oils in the mix. all of them have a purpose. some are to mask odors, some have some level of effectiveness. you do NOT know if this product works, because you refuse to try something that is against what your journals say.
i never said anything in contrary to your studies quoted. i gave an option, an option that you have not tried.

why can't you leave it to say that although deet is the most effective product on the market, there are some studies that show that some natural alternatives may also work, just may need to reapply. instead of insulting my ways and my products i choose to back up. i tried the product, got no bites, and then bought it for the store. i would not have purchased cases of it had it not repelled mosquitos effectively. maybe it won't work on everyone, but it does on many. and they keep buying it. must be a reason. oh, yeah, it's a viable, effective option, that is why!

but perhaps i am being unreasonable. i am done.
  • 0
Cabrilla's Sport Center
Calle 11 % Melgar y 10av
Edificio Portales, Local 1
Dressing Fishermen and Triathletes from Head to Toe

#27 morenita

morenita

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 409 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:29 AM

I am not saying you are a bad mother. I was saying you may be putting people at risk by giving them a false sense of security buying a product that is very mediocre. I will not say that it is a good option. Because the facts are that it is not. It has some marginal effectiveness and for a very short period of time. It is not a good option. And I have read reports of this product specifically. It was studied because it was listed in a "journal for natural medicine" (don't know the actual name) as thier number one selling product. It is very ineffective.

Yes you are correct about all the other various ways to reduce exposure. Including a very powerful fan where you sleep. Strong winds seem to keep them at bay. As well as getting rid of standing water ( breeding grounds) but as I stated before it is not good enough just to empty containers. They need to be scrubbed to dislodge the eggs. Diligence

But the CDC also recommends using an effective repellent when outdoors. And they recommned DEET.

But your replies are laced more with insults "wanna be doctor" hahahahaha than with any facts.

I will call it what it is. Reef Safe is not a good option. If you really want something that works and is proven to work and is safe. Then use DEET. To say your product is an option would be to deny fifty + years of research and to discredit every study I have ever read. So no you will not get a compromise from me here. I stand behind the facts. These products are very ineffective. People will by alot of things and believe alot of things (bug lights, wrist bands, ultrasonic devices, bat houses). Doesn't make them right.
  • 0

#28 MarkC

MarkC

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 843 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:DFW

Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:32 AM

Perhaps in an effort to get along, we can completely come away from using repellants altogether and just keep gambusias as pets:

http://www.telegraph...ito-plague.html

===========

As an alternative, read the below article - if we all held our breath and wore earth tones, mosquitos woudln't even know we were there!

"Mosquitoes can hone in on carbon dioxide emitted from breath and skin from over 75 feet away"

"Wear earth tones, khaki, or neutral clothing while trekking. Studies show that mosquitoes are more attracted to bright clothing"


http://goseasia.abou...quito_bites.htm




If all else fails, get a pet gecko to carry on your shoulder


Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
  • 0
“Corona con lima, Corona with lime... Todo el tiempo, hey all of the time... Con mucho gusto, I’m havin such a good time... Corona con lima, Corona with lime...”

#29 morenita

morenita

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 409 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:38 AM

Yes they hone in on the carbon dioxide and fly in a zigzag pattern until they locate their target. They also like moving objects because they are easier to locate. So stay still, do not breath and wear khaki.
  • 0

#30 nauticab

nauticab

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,940 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Cozumel

Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:42 AM

markc, the company started with reef safe, biodegradeable sunscreens. using products that leave no residue in the ocean and lakes and that are natural and do not test on animals. i don't think their studies show anything about the effectiveness on grouper. LOL

they branched out to biodegradeable repellents, and one of the products combines the two. while many athletes got bit during ironman during the run, i didn't. and i also didn't get a burn at all after being in the sun all day long. so for me and for anyone else who likes to try out the other options for whatever reason, the combo works great.

i often run in the north end during dusk. crazy with mosquitos up there. i have never gotten bit and i don't run fast as the wind. i often take a stretch break, and not a single critter lands on me. so as much as you discredit me, the proof is in the ACTION not just the words.

use deet, use reef safe, use anything that WORKS FOR YOU, and if you have signs of dengue, go to the doc immediately.
  • 0
Cabrilla's Sport Center
Calle 11 % Melgar y 10av
Edificio Portales, Local 1
Dressing Fishermen and Triathletes from Head to Toe

#31 Coz2wonder

Coz2wonder

    Guru

  • Members
  • 5,617 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:44 AM

A positive ending to this thread.

If it works, use it, if it doesn't find something else.
  • 0

The most important thing in life is not knowing everything, it's having the phone number of somebody who does!

Anonymous


#32 morenita

morenita

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 409 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:49 AM

If you want to be safe use DEET. If you are feeling really risky try the others. I have actually used the Reef Safe sun block when diving. Seemed OK. No different from anything else. But did like the idea that it was not harmful to the reef. There are other products out there that are supposedly safe in the water as well.
  • 0

#33 MarkC

MarkC

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 843 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:DFW

Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:49 AM

thank god for the added humor, eh?

girls, now kiss and make up :wub:
  • 0
“Corona con lima, Corona with lime... Todo el tiempo, hey all of the time... Con mucho gusto, I’m havin such a good time... Corona con lima, Corona with lime...”

#34 morenita

morenita

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 409 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:57 AM

No need. Don't take anything personal here. Just state the facts as I know them. And admit when I am wrong. I am far from perfect. Try not to give my opinion just the facts but then again as said I am not perfect. No harm done. Just a good discussion and hopefully somewhat enlightening. And yes for me I take this very seriously but in the end some good homor is always welcome.
  • 0

#35 MarkC

MarkC

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 843 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:DFW

Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:23 AM

How about a group hug then?

Posted Image
  • 0
“Corona con lima, Corona with lime... Todo el tiempo, hey all of the time... Con mucho gusto, I’m havin such a good time... Corona con lima, Corona with lime...”

#36 morenita

morenita

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 409 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:36 AM

For some levity Mark

Pepito, Que te dejaron de tareas? Umm de tareas me dejaron, tus nalgas? Mis nalgas? Si, un par de planas
  • 0

#37 MarkC

MarkC

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 843 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:DFW

Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:45 AM

For some levity Mark

Pepito, Que te dejaron de tareas? Umm de tareas me dejaron, tus nalgas? Mis nalgas? Si, un par de planas


LOL
  • 0
“Corona con lima, Corona with lime... Todo el tiempo, hey all of the time... Con mucho gusto, I’m havin such a good time... Corona con lima, Corona with lime...”

#38 Carey

Carey

    Guru

  • Members
  • 14,204 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Cozumel Island
  • Interests:reading, singing, movies, family & friends, good food, travel

Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:24 PM

Dori Pharmacy on Salas between 15 and 20 always fascinates me with all the interesting and sometimes archiac oils, lotions and potions they sell there along with newer stuff. AJ and I just picked up a couple of little bottles of a product made in Merida called Moskitan . Company website is laboratoriopenisular.com.mx.

First ingredient extract of neem leaves, second ingredient aloe gel, third ingredient neem oil, fourth ingredient citronella. Smells like citronella. Says to reapply every two hours but in light of this discussion sounds like every 40 minutes would be a better bet.

AJ won't use deet and he's the gardener. AND he's had dengue once already. He's going to slather it on one leg and not the other and see what happens. Will report.
  • 0

#39 morenita

morenita

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 409 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 13 July 2012 - 06:43 PM

Neem oil was tested in India for the Malaria mosquito. For some reason it seemed to have a better effect when mixed with coconut oil. It has shown to be more effective against the malaria (Anopheles) carrying mosquito than the dengue (Aedes Aegypti) mosquito. So it may reduce the number of bites but you will still probably get bitten. But this was not any study that is accepted by any major organization like WHO or CDC. So I would have no opinion. But with all oils they need to be reapplied very often. I would suggest every half hour. If you are really opposed to DEET, and I am not sure why you would be. It is the most tested and proven effective and safe product on the market. But if you really are opposed to using it I would suggest Icaridin found in Autun. It is propably the the next best thing. After that you could use IR3535 or if it must be all natural than lemon eucalyptus oil. But understand the latter two should be reapplied every 20 minutes. The New England Journal of Medicine tested virtually every oil known to make a claim to be a repelent and not one showed any effectiveness for more than 20 minutes. Regular cooking oil worked for the same period of time. The only natural oil based products that lasted longer than 20 minutes was a soybean oil based product. DEET is still the best lasting for 6 hours. But there are those that do have some, in my opinion, "unfounded" fear of DEET. Good luck with whatever you use.
  • 0

#40 nauticab

nauticab

    Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,940 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Cozumel

Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:49 PM

i get bit with deet and autan. have not gotten bitten with reef safe. no kissing here.
"unfounded" can be simply the fact that some people don't want chemical that could cause some slight harm on their bodies. no need to chastise them saying that they are wrong.
paula, i was hoping your post would have ended it....
but carey, you would have to mention that you are going to be using some natural stuff, that of course won't be effective in the least. probably another snake oil mixture :P
  • 0
Cabrilla's Sport Center
Calle 11 % Melgar y 10av
Edificio Portales, Local 1
Dressing Fishermen and Triathletes from Head to Toe




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users