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Bug Spray Do Not Use Deet


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#41 Carey

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 08:04 PM

I came to the party late but I'd say everyone is entitled to their opinion and can do as they please. AJ is the one who refuses to use Deet. I referred him to this thread with lots of info on both sides. He is a scientist if ever there was one. So thanks for all the info everyone. Good discussion for helping people decide.

As for me, I'm still on the fence. I always prefer the natural approach. But if it didn't work, I'd give some thought to the Deet, alright. We don't have a bad prob with mosquitos in our compound because we have no grass -- grava fina is the base of our garden. Also we have a pretty good sized fish pond.. But we all fear dengue. And I am concerned about my husband as he has had one of the non hemmoraghic forms already.
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#42 morenita

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 08:18 PM

Neem oil is one of the most popular repellents used in Asia due to the availability of the Neem tree. I have read very few studies relating to it except from those done in India. So I cannot make an educated guess. Only to say that it is less effective against the dengue mosquito than the malaria mosquito. But even in the studies in India it would need to reapplied quite often. But I will definitely do my research on it. I can speak to the use of Citronella oil based proucts and most all other oil based products because there have been many studies done. Probably the most thorough was that of the New England Journal of Medicine. They tested some ten different cironella based products and they showed an effectiveness between 3 and 20 minutes. Dengue and it's prevention is something I have read alot about because it affects so many here in my country.

I say unfounded because DEET is the most tested product on the market. In 8 Billion uses worlwide since 1960 there have been 50 documented cases of toxic reactions. And out of those all but 12 were resolved. And of those twelve they were due to improper use or they could not be directly related to DEET. So I would call the fear unfounded.

The New England Journal of Medicine calls it the "gold standard" and the only thing they can really recommend. With a sterling safety record.
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#43 morenita

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 08:37 PM

From the New England Journal Of Medicine


Our study shows that only products containing
DEET offer long-lasting protection after a single application.
Certain plant-derived repellents may provide
short-lived efficacy, which may be sufficient when
arthropod bites are primarily a nuisance. Frequent reapplication
of these repellents would partially compensate
for their short duration of action. However,
when one is traveling to an area with prevalent mosquito-
borne disease that could be transmitted through
a single bite, the use of non-DEET repellents would
seem to be ill-advised. Given our findings, we cannot
recommend the use of any currently available non-
DEET repellent to provide complete protection from
arthropod bites for any sustained outdoor activity.
Although this study shows that DEET-based products
can be depended on for long-lasting repellent
effect, they are not perfect repellents. DEET may be
washed off by perspiration or rain, and its efficacy
decreases dramatically with rising outdoor temperatures.
19,30,34
Despite the substantial attention paid by the lay
press every year to the safety of DEET, this repellent
has been subjected to more scientific and toxicologic
scrutiny than any other repellent substance. The extensive
accumulated toxicologic data on DEET have
been reviewed elsewhere.
17,35-39
DEET has a remarkable
safety profile after 40 years of use and nearly 8 billion
human applications.
35
Fewer than 50 cases of
serious toxic effects have been documented in the
medical literature since 1960, and three quarters of
them resolved without sequelae.
35,37
Many of these
cases of toxic effects involved long-term, heavy, frequent,
or whole-body application of DEET. No correlation
has been found between the concentration
of DEET used and the risk of toxic effects. As part
of the Reregistration Eligibility Decision on DEET,
released in 1998, the Environmental Protection Agency
reviewed the accumulated data on the toxicity of
DEET and concluded that “normal use of DEET
does not present a health concern to the general U.S.
population.”
40
When applied with common sense,
DEET-based repellents can be expected to provide a
safe as well as a long-lasting repellent effect. Until a
better repellent becomes available, DEET-based re-pellents
remain the gold standard of protection under
circumstances in which it is crucial to be protected
against arthropod bites that might transmit disease.



This along with recommendations from many other Medical Journals, The Center for Disease Control and The World Health Organization is good enough for me.

I hope A.J. would recondsider his choice. DEET is the safest and most proven effective product on the market. There are more documented cases of mild to severe skin irritations from natural botanical treatments than from DEET. Most oils must be diluted to be used topically on the skin. Just because something is natural or botanical does not mean it is completely safe. Many plants are poisonous. Many oils will cause alergic reactions or severe irritation. Citronella oil has been banned in some parts as a repellent. Natural does not always equate to safe.
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#44 nauticab

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:06 PM

can be depended on for long-lasting repellent
effect, they are not perfect repellents. DEET may be
washed off by perspiration or rain, and its efficacy
decreases dramatically with rising outdoor temperatures.
19,30,34
DEET is also a plasticizer, capable of dissolving
watch crystals, the frames of glasses, and certain
synthetic fabrics.


reef safe, both with and without sunscreen, is water proof, thereby probably increasing its effectiveness (compared to other natural options) by not washing off. only soap and water removes it from skin. which is why it stayed on during all of ironman, even the 1:19 swim time and 6:38hrs of sweat and sun, and kept me protected from mosquitos during the run, from 3pm til almost 8pm. all with one application by the way at 4:30 that MORNING!
since we have to cover ourselves to protect ourselves, i really don't want my watch crystals and glasses frames to dissolve.
that is NOT an unfounded reason to avoid DEET if one chooses to do so.
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#45 morenita

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:28 PM

You actually want someone to beleive this product protected you for 15 an 1/2 hours with one single application and it survived 79 minutes in the water and 6 and 1/2 hours sweating when the manufacturer does not even attempt to make those types of ridiculous claims. Granted they claim it is waterproof for 80 minutes and supposedly you were in the water for only 79. But they do say it only provides very short term protection. 15 and a 1/2 hours ? Really? Sell that one to some one else. There is not a product on the market that would try to make that claim. The best citronella based product tested lasted 20 minutes. I know it also has some other magic herbs and flowers. This product has been tested. 20 minutes max. Thats it.

And the manufacturer does not claim that it is only removed with soap and water. Really!

And the reason why I decided to delete the part about disolving plastic for your information is because it is pretty much irrelevent because it only pertains to a very high concentration. And no one recommends any concentration over 50%. A 25% to 30% concentration will provide 6 to 8 hours of protection conservatively.

And another thing I am pretty sure the insect repellent component of the product is not waterproof. Since the repellent only spray does not claim to be waterproof only the sun block repellent combo does. It would make some sense since many sunblocks are waterproof. But basic oils for repelling mosquitos definitely are not. Even with all the extra fancy herbs and flowers. And the manufacturer only says it provides short term protection. Your claim is just absolutely unbelievable.
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#46 nauticab

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 09:57 PM

morenita, Thousands of years of chinese medicine FAR outweigh anything your cut and paste jobs found on google that all support YOUR beliefs. there are just as many on the other side of the fence.

back to your bashing my credibility. were you there? were you in my house at 4:30am applying the sunscreen and testing the exact amount i used? did you do a freaking ironman and NOT get a sunburn after being there all day long? i spoke directly with the manufacturers and scientists of reef safe and THEY also told me that it only washes off with soap and water. rubbing it IN THE WATER will not completely remove it. i use this daily when i do 3000mt swims in the municipal pool at 9am, doing almost 2 hours of drills with my back 100% exposed and NO SUNBURN. i use it when i do 2hr training runs in the middle of the day, in the sun. i use it when i ride my bike 100km. no burn. DO YOU HEAR ME??? NO SUNBURN and NO RE-APPLICATION. BTW, i am of swedish descent... not dark skinned at all.

so don't you dare tell me that i am lying about what happened to me during this event or any other. i apply it, i use it, and i don't get the slightest sunburn. nor do i get bit by mosquitos with it (i DO without it). perhaps i did find a product that is so damn good that people like you will never believe. but to bash my credibility...whoa nelly. barking up the wrong tree.
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#47 artgirl

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:24 PM

Think I'm ready to give that Reefsafe a shot. I'll be by the store in a few days when I'm there and will use throughout my time on the island and will report my personal, non-medical/professional experience with the product, and I promise my non-objective opinion will be supported by manners whether it is effective or not. My husband is eager to try it too. Hope there are plenty of bottles left by the time I arrive as I suspect many here may want to give it a go after this thread. And..... I'm bringing a cr*p load of York Peppermint Patties with me!!!
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#48 nauticab

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 10:27 PM

B)
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#49 Coz2wonder

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 06:46 AM

The ones who should end this is you and morenita.

I have received a complaint about this thread, and had hoped that it would end with you both agreeing to disagree.

But, NO. The sarcasm, and having the last word continues. To what point? The arguments have been made, the opinions have been given, the research is documented...enough all ready.

Nauticab, you have your point of view, and Morenita has hers. It is up to the readers to decide what they want to do and use based on their own experiences, needs, and preferences.

The spirit of what you are both trying to convey is lost in the personal argument.
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#50 Carey

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 06:57 AM

I agree, Paula. Both Nauticab and Morenita made valid and well supported points that make useful reading in my opinion. However, when tempers started to flare and insults began to be flung, we have to cut it off, my dears. Insults have been edited from your posts. They can no longer inflame you further if you re-read them and start to get mad all over again.

The meat is all here. The temperature has been taken down a few notches. This thread should be locked for awhile now, Paula, don't you agree? Until everyone simmers down?
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