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Safety Concerns And A Proactive Bunch


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#1 mexcelia

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:15 PM

Some highlights of the neighborhood watch group's first meeting........hope you enjoy! B)

http://mexcelia.word...roactive-bunch/
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#2 Carey

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:43 PM

Thanks for posting the info Mexcecali. AJ and I tried to attend the meeting but didn't arriving until 5:55 because we figured it would start late because there are many Mexicans involved in the organization. However, as you point out, it was completely packed and there wasn't even standing room in the back by the time we arrived.
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#3 mexcelia

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:59 PM

Joey was nice enough to count........85!! Phew, that was a lot of people for that room.......
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#4 TRAVELER89

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:36 PM

Sergio discussed the "neighborhood watch" meeting in a press conference this morning and it was mentioned twice on tonight's local news. I saw him for a few minutes after the press conference and he is very interested in the program.
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#5 mexcelia

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 07:50 AM

Good to hear the word is "out there." Might help deter some of the problems.
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#6 Valli

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 07:52 AM

Thanks for posting Mexcelia. This is an important initiative, and the issues have not only impacted me personally, but many of my close friends that live on the island year around. One of the items you mentioned in your report was a discussion of "acceptable self-defense measures." Can you elaborate and/or provide any clarification on that topic? Thank you.
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Valli

#7 mexcelia

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 08:35 AM

I'm hesitant about specifics on this forum since it is openly available. Not sure what the protocol is for such things, which is also why I was fairly general in my blog as well. Please PM me and I'll give you what info I have. Would be great if someone could also let us know if specifics can be put in this forum, but, for now, I'd prefer to err on the side of caution............. B)
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#8 mexcelia

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 08:46 AM

Valli, I pm'd you........(is that the right way to write that?) :blink:
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#9 Carey

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:44 AM

I see no problem in being specific on these forums as long as you don't name people by name or give specific addresses. I don't think I'm the only one who finds it real irritating when people take discussions private that could be helpful to many people. So kindly try and keep this discussion open on the board.
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#10 mexcelia

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:02 AM

Okay, then, got the go ahead so here goes.........

Valli asked about the "acceptable self-defense measures" that were addressed at the meeting. I'll try, but, again, not a journalist and wasn't taking notes so please chime in if you have additional info........ Folks were asking what they could do if someone broke into their house and it was made clear that some things are different here than in the states. For defense of property and self: it is Not acceptable to use force when they enter, use any kind of weaponry in the home, force them to leave, or detain them until the police arrive. The only time it is acceptable to "react" is if they have weaponry and you are defending yourself against attack............. Now, he may have touched on some other points in this area and, hopefully, others will chime in here, or you can wait to see a copy of the meeting minutes if you are a member....... Possibly ask on the FB page "Cozumel Neighborhood Watch Group"
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#11 Coz2wonder

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:54 PM

In case this post was missed (local talk) just prior to the watch meeting Anne Harris has asked Lic Gisela Rodriguez for an explanation of the law regarding "CRIME VICTIMS & MINOR CRIMINALS/SELF DEFENSE"

Below is the article of the law as it relates to what is acceptable as "self defense" per Ms. Rodriguez translation.

"Article 20 fraction III, Chapter V Section I of the Criminal Code of Quintana Roo lists the hypothesis when an action will not be considered as crime, one of them is self-defense.

I will try to translate fraction III for you, although you can ask Monica Sauza to make a proper translation.


III.- Repealing a real and imminent agression in protection of own assets or own by others, always when there is the rational need of the defense used and there is no provocation by the assaulted party or by the person whom he/she is defending; it will be presumed as self-defense, unless proven otherwise when causing harm to whom through violence or other way penetrates without consent into the agents home, his family, his offices o to the one's he should protect or to the place where his assets or others are kept and he should protect or wherever places on which the circumstances reveal the possibility of an aggression.

III.- Se repela una agresión real actual o inminente, sin derecho en protección de bienes jurídicos propios o ajenos, siempre que exista necesidad racional de la defensa empleada y no medie provocación suficiente o inmediata por parte del agredido o de la persona a quien se defiende; se presumirá como legítima defensa, salvo prueba en contrario, el hecho de causar un daño a quien, a través de la violencia o de cualquier medio trate de penetrar sin derecho al hogar del agente, al de su familia, a sus dependencias o a los de cualquier otra persona que tenga la obligación de defender, o al sitio donde se encuentren bienes propios o ajenos respecto de los que exista la misma obligación o bien lo encuentre en alguno de aquellos lugares en circunstancias tales que revelen la probabilidad de una agresión.

You can infer from reading the law that
a) shooting someone unarmed even though inside your property will not
be considered self-defense.
injuring someone unarmed even though inside your property will not
be considered self-defense;
c) holding someone for hours before calling police will not be
considered self-defense;
d) following a criminal who breaks into a home and then hurt him will
not be considered self-defense;
e) hurting someone already on the floor or surrendering will not be
considered self-defense.


The law does not distinguish what happens if the aggressor is a minor BUT for sure self-defense would be much harder to prove. The adult will have to prove why he used forced in a minor and why he felt threatened and in danger. If the minor holds a gun and points the gun... then yes ... that would be consider in danger.

There is no manual and each case is different.

Hope that helps

Best regards
Gisela
Lic. Gisela Rodríguez
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#12 Carey

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 01:03 PM

I think very shrill, ear-piercing whistles is the way to go. Lemme see what's available on amazon just out of curiosity.....

http://www.amazon.co...stles emergency

Looks like the winner is the Storm Safety Whistle. Read the looooong review about 3 down where a guy and his son test a bunch of different whistles before deciding this one is the best.

$5.99 and I'll bet a big discount could be had for purchasing in bulk and shipped here via EstefetaUS or a number of other ways.

If everyone had a whistle and they heard one blowing, they could grab theirs and blow too and it would be kind of freaky for the culprits I imagine. This particular model is supposed to sound almost painfully loud and shrill so a bargain for 6 bucks before the bulk discount.

I do wonder how well a nabe watch would work in some areas of Corpus Christi where there are so many absentee landlords who rent their properties weekly.

I think it would work in my neighborhood of Centro, certainly, where a lot of people are already Noisy Parkers, self included in that number.
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#13 Carey

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 01:19 PM

And here's a link to the company's website where I see they do sell wholesale and the whistle is being used by an impressive number of groups in the US including Special Forces unit training at Fort Bragg, NC

http://www.stormwhis....com/storm.html
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#14 LuhM

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 02:55 PM

Great idea, Carey. Any idea how big the box would be? Maybe we can keep the order under $300 usd and some kind soul could bring them in lugggage.
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#15 Coz2wonder

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:01 PM

I can get pricing on bulk order for this, and also for decals that affix to your walls that state "THIS HOUSE IS UNDER SURVEILLANCE" with a graphic of a camera.

Let me know if their is an interest, and if we can drop ship and somebody can bring them down that would be even better.
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#16 LuhM

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:03 PM

We are so sorry for those of you who could not get in the room. We never expected that kind of turn out. The room was half full at 5:30 and people were patiently waiting. Regarding self-defense as I understood it from Director of Police, Sergio Terrazas, if somebody enters your home you have no right to attack them unless they attack you. If you are attacked first, you have the right to fight back. If a person is a minor, I think the same law applies with one exception. There is a good chance the minor will not be charged with a crime, where an adult would be. The Neighborhood Watch Group was formed to be eyes and ears, and the purpose is is to watch our neighbors and prevent crime. We are trying to secure our homes with motion lights, alarms and cameras so that the would-be robber will decide it is just too much trouble and go away. We will know when our neighbor across the street is away, for instance, have phone numbers for emergencies. If we see something that isn't right contact the neighbor or the police.
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#17 LuhM

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:10 PM

Bilingual notices would be best. If you type Neighborhood Watch groups in google, a website comes up that sells all that kind of stuff. At the bottom, Paula, it has the English/Spanish versions. I will try to find the link.
Regarding self-defense, I understood Sergio Terrazas to say you could detain the person but not with lethal force. I don't know how you could unless maybe you could lock them in a room or something.
Last but not least, I am one of the founders of the Cozumel Neighborhood Watch Group and none of the things that were discussed nor laws nor procedures or what we should do is a secret. We should all know and there is absolutely no reason why we can't discuss it on this forum. It is a community problem and we are a community. I agree with Carey. The more we know, the better off we are.
Unfortunately the recording from the meeting is a bit hard to understand, or so I have been told. I have not actually listened to it. I did offer to though as a lot was in a bit of Spanglish, which is my specialty. :) I am hoping sooner rather than later the meeting minutes will be available for our review. As soon as I know, I can post here.

Luh
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#18 Coz2wonder

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:17 PM

I think the value add is that we are all now aware to watch out for ourselves, and our neighbors. Just like you would do at home.

We can add decals, and have whistles, but it is observations, awareness, and common sense that will prevail.

If you see something, call 066. If your a victim of a crime, report it.
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#19 Coz2wonder

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

I am getting pricing structure on the whistles, as well as shipping and customs fees to import.

Do you know that they can be used underwater as well! Muti-markets.
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#20 LuhM

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:14 PM

wow, super cool. Thanks! :)
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